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Science & Technology
Grid Can Handle Electric Cars
2008-07-23
Which draws more juice from the electric grid, a big-screen plasma television or recharging a plug-in hybrid car?
Do hybrids plug in, or are we talking about electric cars?
The answer is the car. But the electricity drawn by plasma televisions is easing the minds of utility company executives across the nation as they plan for what is likely to be a conversion of much of the country's vehicle fleet from gasoline to electricity in the coming years.

Rechargeable cars, industry officials say, consume about four times the electricity as plasma TVs. But the industry already has dealt with increased electric demand from the millions of plasma TVs sold in recent years. Officials say that experience will help them deal with the vehicle fleet changeover.
But many plasma TVs aren't on during rush hour.
So as long as the changeover from internal combustion engines to electric vehicles is somewhat gradual, they should be able to handle it in the same way, Mark Duvall, program manager for electric transportation, power delivery and distribution for the Electric Power Research Institute, said Tuesday. "We've already added to the grid the equivalent of several years' production of plug-in hybrids," Duvall said at a conference on electric vehicles in San Jose. "The utilities, they stuck with it. They said, 'All right, that's what's happening. This is where the loads are going, and we're going to do this.'"

Automakers, such as General Motors Corp. and Toyota Motor Corp., are planning to bring rechargeable vehicles to the market as early as 2010. But speakers at the Plug-In 2008 conference say it will take much longer for them to arrive in mass numbers, due in part to a current lack of large-battery manufacturing capacity. Auto and battery companies still are working on the lithium-ion battery technology needed for the cars, and on how to link the battery packs to the vehicles.

"We see the vehicle penetration levels coming at a rate that's manageable," said Efrain Ornelas, environmental technical supervisor with Pacific Gas and Electric Co. in San Francisco. "It's not like tomorrow the flood gates are going to open and 100,000 vehicles are going to come into San Francisco or something like that."

Instead, the vehicles will show up by the thousands throughout Northern California, he predicted. PG&E will be able to track their charging patterns and plan accordingly for the future, he said. Utility officials say they already are coping with increased demand, especially during peak-use periods in the afternoon and early evening. But the rest of the day, most utilities have excess generating capacity that could be used to recharge cars.
California rolling brownouts are finished?
But the preparation doesn't mean electric vehicles will be accommodated without problems and good planning, the officials say. Since most electric cars will in the perfect world likely be charged during off-peak electric use times, utilities should have no problem generating enough electricity. But since people with the means to buy electric cars likely will live in the same areas, utilities worry about stress on their distribution systems, Ornelas said.

That means consumers will face a lot of choices about when and where they charge up their cars and how much they want to pay for the electricity. The choice for consumers will come because utilities likely will raise rates to charge cars during peak use times, generally from around noon to 8 p.m., and lower them for charging during low-use hours, industry officials say.
I assume that's all rates; not just those to charg cars. or are they planning separate meters and/or voltages?
In California, utilities already are installing meters that track use by time of day. PG&E charges 30 cents per kilowatt hour to charge an electric vehicle during peak hours, he said, but charges only 5 cents from midnight to 7 p.m.
Phoenix had several choices of variable rate plans 20 years ago.
Duvall said utilities still have to be wary that high gasoline prices could push sales of rechargeable electric vehicles well into the millions by 2020, because that could stress the system. Other possible problems include electric vehicles getting larger and requiring far more electricity for recharging, and demands from people that their vehicles be recharged quickly, drawing more electricity during peak times.

Also, companies such as the Campbell-based Coulomb Technologies, are starting to develop recharging stations for sale to parking lot operators, office buildings and cities, which will draw more electricity.
Or could trickle-charge over a longer period of time?
There's also talk of the cars storing electricity and sending it back to the power companies during peak times, but officials say that's in the year 2525 a long way off.
Posted by:Bobby

#10  ION TOPIX > GLOBAL WARMING? GEOPHYSICAL WEAPONS/SYSTEMS, EMP BOMBS ARE A GREATER THREAT; + EMERGY-BASED NEW TECHNOLOGIES WILL SHAPE FUTURE US, WORLD.
Posted by: JosephMendiola   2008-07-23 23:49  

#9  Keep in mind, they are being tested in Southern CA most likely. Warm and flat makes for a lot of miles out of a battery pack.
Posted by: bigjim-ky   2008-07-23 20:39  

#8  I'm not saying I guarantee that, beta testers are reporting it. I have no way to know if it is true or not.
Posted by: bigjim-ky   2008-07-23 20:36  

#7  The claim may be for 125 mpg - running 40 miles on the initial charge and then a good mpg run for the remainder. A 1.1 litre diesel at constant rpm can do wonders for mileage.

Posted by: .5MT   2008-07-23 20:32  

#6  the new range is around 125 miles for a fresh battery pack.

No.
Posted by: .5MT   2008-07-23 20:30  

#5  
Another thing to keep in mind is range, they claim it has a range of 45 miles on the batteries. That is somewhat misleading because they are quoting that as the guaranteed range after 100,000 miles on the battery pack. I don't know if its true, but some people on the Volt forum claim the new range is around 125 miles for a fresh battery pack.(?


That's best case range just driving. How long will it last on a cold, rainy night, running the lights, defroster, wipers while listening to the radio?


 
Posted by: Steve   2008-07-23 19:45  

#4  Spend less money on useless, stupid bullshit.

Hows that for a transportation policy?
Posted by: bigjim-ky   2008-07-23 16:51  

#3  Now; what will be the solution to build and maintain the roads when these cars are not paying into the present gas tax system? A tax on the power derived from these charging stations? That ought to PO those folks who don't think they should pay for those nasty highway workers because their car is green. Similar to the bicycle riders who think they should not pay for those bike lanes they have been using.
Posted by: tipover   2008-07-23 12:34  

#2  I think they are talking about plug-in hybrids Bobby. You charge the batteries before you leave the house, if your trip is no more than 40 to 125 miles (depending on the model of car) you wont use any gas at all. The gasoline generator will kick on and recharge your battery pack at 30% charge. All told, Chevy Volt should get 540 miles to the gallon on a tank of gas starting with a full charge.
To charge the vehicle on off peak rates you need a special meter from the electric company that keeps track of peak/off peak charging. Where I live, it would cost about 45 cents a day to charge the Chevy Volt.
Another thing to keep in mind is range, they claim it has a range of 45 miles on the batteries. That is somewhat misleading because they are quoting that as the guaranteed range after 100,000 miles on the battery pack. I don't know if its true, but some people on the Volt forum claim the new range is around 125 miles for a fresh battery pack.(?)
The car will fully charge in 3 hours, but like you mentioned, it could trickle charge for 8-10 hours and put a lot less strain on the grid. I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see a selectable charging time, 3 hours if you are in a hurry, or 8 if you have all night to let it charge.
There is a wait list for the volt with over 50,000 people on it already, to be released in late 2010.
Posted by: bigjim-ky   2008-07-23 10:34  

#1  Do hybrids plug in, or are we talking about electric cars?
Electric for the first 20 miles or so then hybrid.
Posted by: .5MT   2008-07-23 10:13  

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