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Home Front: WoT
US accused of holding terror suspects on prison ships
2008-06-02
The United States is operating "floating prisons" to house those arrested in its war on terror, according to human rights lawyers, who claim there has been an attempt to conceal the numbers and whereabouts of detainees.
This is another re-hash of the various allegations against us. The Reprieve people are their usual pesky selves but they do have great PR. This keeps up and any day now the Guardian is going to find out we've been stashing detainees at Ice Station Zebra ...
Details of ships where detainees have been held and sites allegedly being used in countries across the world have been compiled as the debate over detention without trial intensifies on both sides of the Atlantic. The US government was yesterday urged to list the names and whereabouts of all those detained.
Even if we haven't done it, we'll have to confess ...
Information about the operation of prison ships has emerged through a number of sources, including statements from the US military, the Council of Europe and related parliamentary bodies, and the testimonies of prisoners. The analysis, due to be published this year by the communist human rights organisation Reprieve, also claims there have been more than 200 new cases of rendition since 2006, when President George Bush declared that the practice had stopped.
Reprieve has been particularly adament on holding that the rights of detainees matter more than the rights of innocent people ...
It is the use of ships to detain prisoners, however, that is raising fresh concern and demands for inquiries in Britain and the US.
Why? They're our ships and thus our business.
According to research carried out by Reprieve, the US may have used as many as 17 ships as "floating prisons" since 2001. Detainees are interrogated aboard the vessels and then rendered to other, often undisclosed, locations, it is claimed.
Good idea (assuming we're doing it, of course, heh). We keep total control over them, and a prisoner who tries to escape has the small matter of swimming a thousand miles home ...
Ships that are understood to have held prisoners include the USS Bataan and USS Peleliu.
Even better; the detainees are safely in the hands of an MEU ...
A further 15 ships are suspected of having operated around the British territory of Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean, which has been used as a military base by the UK and the Americans.

Reprieve will raise particular concerns over the activities of the USS Ashland and the time it spent off Somalia in early 2007 conducting maritime security operations in an effort to capture al-Qaida terrorists. At this time many people were abducted by Somali, Kenyan and Ethiopian forces in a systematic operation involving regular interrogations by individuals believed to be members of the FBI and CIA. Ultimately more than 100 individuals were "disappeared" to prisons in locations including Kenya, Somalia, Ethiopia, Djibouti and Guantánamo Bay.
At the same time, and this is purely a coincidence of course, Kenya and Djibouti got safer. Unfortunately there was no noticeable effect on Somalia, but perhaps we didn't detain enough ...
Reprieve believes prisoners may have also been held for interrogation on the USS Ashland and other ships in the Gulf of Aden during this time.

The Reprieve study includes the account of a prisoner released from Guantánamo Bay, who described a fellow inmate's story of detention on an amphibious assault ship. "One of my fellow prisoners in Guantánamo was at sea on an American ship with about 50 others before coming to Guantánamo ... he was in the cage next to me. He told me that there were about 50 other people on the ship. They were all closed off in the bottom of the ship. The prisoner commented to me that it was like something you see on TV. The people held on the ship were beaten even more severely than in Guantánamo."
Standard lie #2, they were beaten, tortured, yadda-yadda ...
Clive Stafford Smith, Reprieve's legal director, said: "They choose ships to try to keep their misconduct as far as possible from the prying eyes of the media and lawyers. We will eventually reunite these ghost prisoners with their legal rights.

"By its own admission, the US government is currently detaining at least 26,000 people without trial in secret prisons, and information suggests up to 80,000 have been 'through the system' since 2001. The US government must show a commitment to rights and basic humanity by immediately revealing who these people are, where they are, and what has been done to them."
Not likely, since the terrorists are not concerned the least with 'rights' and 'humanity'.
Andrew Tyrie, the Conservative MP who chairs the all-party parliamentary group on extraordinary rendition, called for the US and UK governments to come clean over the holding of detainees. "Little by little, the truth is coming out on extraordinary rendition. The rest will come, in time. Better for governments to be candid now, rather than later. Greater transparency will provide increased confidence that President Bush's departure from justice and the rule of law in the aftermath of September 11 is being reversed, and can help to win back the confidence of moderate Muslim communities, whose support is crucial in tackling dangerous extremism."

The Liberal Democrat's foreign affairs spokesman, Edward Davey, said: "If the Bush administration is using British territories to aid and abet illegal state abduction, it would amount to a huge breach of trust with the British government. Ministers must make absolutely clear that they would not support such illegal activity, either directly or indirectly."

A US navy spokesman, Commander Jeffrey Gordon, told the Guardian: "There are no detention facilities on US navy ships." However, he added that it was a matter of public record that some individuals had been put on ships "for a few days" during what he called the initial days of detention. He declined to comment on reports that US naval vessels stationed in or near Diego Garcia had been used as "prison ships".
Jeff, Jeff, you've already told them too much. Let them dream this up on their own, they'll feel better ...
The Foreign Office referred to David Miliband's statement last February admitting to MPs that, despite previous assurances to the contrary, US rendition flights had twice landed on Diego Garcia. He said he had asked his officials to compile a list of all flights on which rendition had been alleged.

CIA "black sites" are also believed to have operated in Thailand, Afghanistan, Poland and Romania. In addition, numerous prisoners have been "extraordinarily rendered" to US allies and are alleged to have been tortured in secret prisons in countries such as Syria, Jordan, Morocco and Egypt.
Posted by:Steve White

#32  Ah, then waterboarding and keel hauling are one and the same?

Al Qaida, talking the talk, and walking the plank.
Posted by: Skunky Glins 5***   2008-06-02 21:26  

#31  We'll never be able to 'prove' there are no 'secret' prisons...

Not so, the "Proof" is that these morons are still running around loose.
Posted by: Redneck Jim   2008-06-02 17:08  

#30  they have no geneva protections, and per the conventions that we are signatory, they can be summarily executed as spies.

So stand them on the fantail for a firing quad detail. The force blows them over the fantail and into the sea. saves burial.
Posted by: OldSpook   2008-06-02 16:19  

#29  My point exactly.
Posted by: rjschwarz   2008-06-02 15:49  

#28  Sink em, dead men tell no tales. LOL My guess is that in order to help with interrogation our guys may have convinced some of the yoobs they were on board a ship. The they tell them they are in INTERNATIONAL waters and had no legal recourse and might as well cooperate. FYI the run of the mill jihadi aint that edumacated and is easily fooled.
Posted by: Cyber Sarge   2008-06-02 15:25  

#27  if they are beaten with a feather they are beaten more severely than at Guantanimo

Anything being infinitely more than nothing, if there are detainees on the theoretical American prison hulks, and if there are theoretical prison guards there, and if the theoretical prison guards daydream about beating the theoretical detainees, it's more severe than Guantanamo, rjschwarz. Does that help? ;-)
Posted by: trailing wife    2008-06-02 15:13  

#26  OldSpook: Slightly naughty pirate flash:

http://mirror.servut.us/flash/pirate_full.swf

http://www.viciouscyclone.com/Adz/Ad003.html
Posted by: Anonymoose   2008-06-02 14:49  

#25  US accused of holding terror suspects on prison ships

You're only accused of something if its wrong. How 'bout changing the headline to:

US believed to be holding terror suspects on prison ships, human rights proponents hopeful.
Posted by: Intrinsicpilot   2008-06-02 13:28  

#24  Trailing Wife, so you're saying that if they are beaten with a feather they are beaten more severely than at Guantanimo which seems fair assuming there is any they anyway.
Posted by: rjschwarz   2008-06-02 13:26  

#23  Lets all SING ALONG!



Note: The original, UN-PC lyrics.
Posted by: OldSpook   2008-06-02 12:10  

#22  TW told:

Only they aren't beaten at Guantanamo. QED.

Yes They are. They are beaten, on the Cuban side of the fence.
Posted by: JFM   2008-06-02 11:50  

#21  Why would anyone believe a second hand witness, member of a group whose lies listed in the group handbook? The key bit to me was the statement that the prison hulk inmates are being beaten even more severely than at Guantanamo. Only they aren't beaten at Guantanamo. QED.
Posted by: trailing wife    2008-06-02 11:26  

#20  The US should treat all but the top level guys as POW and hold them until the end of hostilities (the war may never end, sucks to be them). They should be held in a POW camp similar to what we used with the NAZIs with the knowledge that bullshit, riots or attempts to escape will result in people being shot.
Posted by: rjschwarz   2008-06-02 11:25  

#19  Besides skirting the Geneva Conventions to their own purposes, the terrorists also use Maritime Laws to their own advantage, ie. piracy and the pursuit thereof. And with all these climate change generated storms, who knows how many could be lost at sea? If true, its brilliant!
Posted by: Thealing Borgia6122   2008-06-02 11:10  

#18  "...they're performing horrible experiments on robots in space..(THUMP)...*thank* you!..."
-- I think We're All Bozos On This Bus
Posted by: mojo   2008-06-02 10:50  

#17  Curse you Anony.... Now I'll have *that* tune rolling around in my head all day....
Posted by: CrazyFool   2008-06-02 10:45  

#16  Interrogate them, then launch them out the back of a C-130 at 33,000 over the middle of the Atlantic. Get the intel without the hassle of keeping them prisoner.
Posted by: DarthVader   2008-06-02 10:45  

#15  What a bad man. And after that lovely picture the other day.
Posted by: Nimble Spemble   2008-06-02 09:55  

#14  (You really don't want to double-entendre these lyrics)

On the goo-oo-ood ship Lollypop
It's a swee-ee-eet trip to a candy shop
Where bon-bons play
On the sunny beach of Peppermint Bay

Lemona-a-ade stands everywhere
'Cross the de-e-eck spans belly air
And there you are
Happy landing on a chocolate bar

See the sugar bowl do the Tootsie roll
With the big bad Bell's Fruit Cake
If you eat too much, ooh-ooh
You'll awake with a tummy ache

On the goo-oo-ood ship Lollypop
It's a ni-i-ice trip into bed you'll hop
And dream away
On the good ship lollypop...
Posted by: Anonymoose   2008-06-02 09:51  

#13  Good lord. The term of art is "prison hulks". Get your terms right, flack!
Posted by: Mitch H.   2008-06-02 09:31  

#12  I didn't say don't interrogate. Just release or execute when done.
Posted by: Nimble Spemble   2008-06-02 09:19  

#11  Much of what we know about the covert terror networks has come from prisoner interrogation.

Then give the illegal combatants a choice. Intel or implementation of 'sterner' side of the GC.

We have to implement the sterner side against Illegal Combatants or the GC will have no value - and that would endanger the very civilians the GC is supposed to protect.

Ask the civilians of Iraq if the GC has helped to protect them while they were under Al-Quaeda occuation.
Posted by: CrazyFool   2008-06-02 08:39  

#10  How about this. Shoot illegal combatants on site. BUT, just before you shoot them take them somewhere and interrogate the secretly. After that is done, finish the shooting process. Win win.
Posted by: Hellfish   2008-06-02 08:24  

#9  Stop taking prisoners

Much of what we know about the covert terror networks has come from prisoner interrogation.
Posted by: lotp   2008-06-02 08:01  

#8  If you have a brilliant proposal for doing so that the current administration has missed, we're breathlessly awaiting enlightenment.

Shoot illegal combattants and people who violate the rules of war like wearing of uniforms, not uising hospitals and religious buildings.

Very important is, educationg people that theses are part of the Genava Conventions. That teh Ganeva conventions were for protecting civilians and not for giving an edge to bad guys. That in aorder to avoid that, they allow between other things the freing of the hands of the pother ide when one side violates them them and the shooting of the offenders. That these proviosna re essntial for protecting civilains since they remove the incentive to cheat.

I admit ikt is a un uphill struggle since we havce to revert the work of decades of communist-inspired propaganda aimed at tying the hands of western armies when fighting Vietcong, FLN, Khmer Rouges and similar pseudo liberation movements.
Posted by: JFM   2008-06-02 07:52  

#7  lotp, I have a suggestion. Stop taking prisoners. I have another suggestion. Announce that we will begin to run the war pursuant to the Geneva Conventions and that terrorists will receive summary executions. Then implement the policy.
Posted by: Nimble Spemble   2008-06-02 07:49  

#6  #1 Actually, I have it on good knowledge that they are being held on the space station. The recent broken toilet? Yep, koran flushing.

LOL! Top Snark ed!
Posted by: RD   2008-06-02 07:43  

#5  Mizzou Mafia, if we lack a 'credible' plan to deal with terrorists it's because they (deliberately) fall through the cracks in international agreements which presuppose that attacks will be made by sovereign states.

If you have a brilliant proposal for doing so that the current administration has missed, we're breathlessly awaiting enlightenment. I haven't heard one yet and I work with people who deal with counter-terrorism every day.
Posted by: lotp   2008-06-02 07:17  

#4  Great minds think alike, Ed.

We'll never be able to 'prove' there are no 'secret' prisons...
Posted by: Bobby   2008-06-02 06:21  

#3  The missing word is "credible" in the first sentence. Preview is your friend.
Posted by: Mizzou Mafia   2008-06-02 02:58  

#2  I don't find the sources listed in this article in the least.

But, I will say, that we've had eight years to figure this stuff out. Why we don't have a coherent plan to deal with accused terrorists STILL is mystifying to me, and an indictment of the current administration.
Posted by: Mizzou Mafia   2008-06-02 02:57  

#1  Actually, I have it on good knowledge that they are being held on the space station. The recent broken toilet? Yep, koran flushing.
Posted by: ed   2008-06-02 01:44  

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