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Europe
Low rate of German-Turkish marriages impede integration
2008-02-24
Many German Turks are pressured to marry only within their ethnic and religious group. But the practice of "importing" partners from Turkey creates new immigrants and stands in the way of integration. "Whether Turks are prepared to marry Germans depends a lot on the importance of religion," said Amparo Gonzalez-Ferrer, a comparative sociologist at the Juan March Institute in Madrid.

The vast majority of Turks are Muslims in a predominantly Christian culture that has become increasingly secular. "One reason why more [Turkish] men marry Germans is that Islam permits them and not women to marry non-Muslims," Gonzalez-Ferrer said.

According to the latest 2006 figures from the Federal Statistics Office, Turkish men accounted for 14 percent all foreigners that German women marry, followed by Italians and Americans. German men had different partner preferences. Poles topped the list by far, followed by Russians, Turks and Thai women in roughly equal numbers. Turkish women accounted for only 8 percent of all foreigners that German men marry.

Considering, however, that Turkish citizens make up 25 percent of all foreign residents in Germany -- not counting an additional one-third ethnic Turks who are German citizens -- intermarriage rates are in reality very low, said Dirk Halm, a political scientist at the Center for Turkish Studies in Essen.

According to Gonzalez-Ferrer, even well-educated Turkish women vastly prefer to marry ethnic Turks over Germans and go as far as importing husbands from Turkey. "This could be their strategy for living independently from the in-laws, who stay behind in Turkey" she said, adding that a German Turkish woman would also have the upper hand in a relationship with a migrant husband, who is unfamiliar with Germany.

But the practice of importing spouses creates a new generation of migrants continually. This becomes an integration problem, especially when Turkish men import much younger, uneducated brides, whose vulnerability sometimes makes them easy targets for domestic violence. That is one reason why Germany has recently upped the age limit to 18 for such unions, and now requires imported spouses to learn German before getting an entry visa.

One should, however, make a distinction between forced marriages, in which a woman's life could be at risk for defying the parental choice of a partner, and arranged marriages, which is a far more common practice.

"Turks are far more likely to seek parental approval in the choice of a partner than Germans are," said Yasemin Karakasoglu, a migration expert at the University of Bremen. "There is tremendous pressure for young women to be married by say 23, so worried parents start looking for potential suitors if they believe their daughter is 'over the hill'," she said.

Parental pressure in Turkish families, however, is not the only factor which impedes inter-ethnic marriages. Lale Akgun, a German-Turkish parliamentarian of the Social Democrat party, believes that some Germans too, feel uneasy about the prospect of a Turkish in-law. "We need more dialogue between Turks and Germans, so that young people can feel free to make their own partner choices, without letting a person's ethnicity to get in the way," Akgun said.
Posted by:ryuge

#11  >>Some things have changed since the 1990s however. First, unification with eastern Germany flooded the job market with workers, reducing the perceived need for Turkish guest workers. And then the rise of an Islamic party taking power in Turkey, along with 9/11, changed the perceived risk of Turkey entering the EU.>>

Some valid points here BUT I'm just a bit tired about these eternal lefty rants, that an immigration country should give up/adjust its values to ideologies from the dark ages.
WE WON`T DO THIS.
Apart from this, there are plenty of positive examples of migrants who have successfully integrated in Germany. Some of them are even in an engaged fight for religious freedom (free choice of religion- not quite a Muslim stronghold.. hm), women rights( ever heard about forced Muslim marriages or bride killings??) etc. There are others, who have become pretty successful and wealthy businessmen/women. The chances are there, but you have to get of your a**s instead of just relying on payments of the nanny welfare state.
Posted by: SGL   2008-02-24 19:50  

#10  Whether or not Germany wants Turkey in the EU is beside the point that they have strung their Turkish guest workers along for generations. They didn't assimilate them and they didn't force them to return. So now they amount to an invasion force from within. And the Germans are defenceless against an enemy they themselves have created. In my opinion, it couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of folks, except the French. But they've created their own version in the banlieus. A pox on both their houses.
Posted by: Nimble Spemble   2008-02-24 19:22  

#9  It may seem like nonsense, but that is exactly what Germany's attitude re: both the guest workers and at least officially re: Turkey and the EU was in the 1990s.

(Mr. Lotp's family are, on one side, Germans living mostly in Germany. We get frank opinions from them from time to time on issues like this.)

Some things have changed since the 1990s however. First, unification with eastern Germany flooded the job market with workers, reducing the perceived need for Turkish guest workers. And then the rise of an Islamic party taking power in Turkey, along with 9/11, changed the perceived risk of Turkey entering the EU.

Nevertheless, Turkey became an official candidate for EU membership in 1998 or so and that's still their official status.
Posted by: lotp   2008-02-24 19:15  

#8  '' The Turks didn't demand that Germany keep them for 3 and 4 generations - the Germans were quite cozy with the setup and kept stringing the Turks along with the promise that eventually Turkey would join the EU and the Turks in Germany could become citizens''
Never read such a nonsense before!!. Neither Germany nor France nor most others EU countries want Turkey to join the EU AND the door is still WIDE open for them to leave, if they don't like it here.
Posted by: SGL   2008-02-24 19:03  

#7  Guest workers are supposed to come, work for a while, and then GO BACK HOME.

But that is not what the Germans asked for or incented.

They specifically leaned on 'guest workers' to fill jobs in a workforce persistently hollowed out by a population too comfortable to have and raise kids.

The Turks didn't demand that Germany keep them for 3 and 4 generations - the Germans were quite cozy with the setup and kept stringing the Turks along with the promise that eventually Turkey would join the EU and the Turks in Germany could become citizens.
Posted by: lotp   2008-02-24 16:22  

#6  The answer to this is just incredibly simple: ban Islam. No mosques, no muezzins, no halal slaughterhouses, no concessions to Muzzies' mores whatsoever. Just state that Muslims cannot practice their religion in Germany, under pain of immediate deportation to country of ethnic origin.

When the Left asks why, point them at the Magic Kingdom and tell them that when the spiritual home of Islam starts allowing people of other faiths to worship freely, the matter can be revisited. Until that time, Islam is banned. Be adamant about the prohibition, enough so that both friends and enemies have absolutely no doubt about its continued enforcement.

Then stand back and watch the rush for the exits.
Posted by: Jomosing Bluetooth8431   2008-02-24 16:14  

#5  Thank you Gromsky. The first generation of Turks were not a problem at all. When the wall came down and the East Germans were virtually unemployable some effort should have been made to end the guest worker concept. That was a generation ago and I hate to say it but the youngest generation of Muslims seems ot have a problem with the West.
Posted by: rjschwarz   2008-02-24 15:26  

#4  Guest workers are supposed to come, work for a while, and then GO BACK HOME. Every country on the face of the Earth has such a program, or at least in my experience.
Posted by: gromky   2008-02-24 14:00  

#3  How so, rjschwarz? German laws prohibitted Turkish 'guest workers' from becoming citizens, owning businesses etc for a long time. Hard to see that as laziness on the Turks' part.
Posted by: lotp   2008-02-24 12:32  

#2  The Turks came in as guest workers initially, not as immigrants. How they ended up as second class citizens in Germany is their own shame and a chapter in the ongoing questions regarding Islam and intentions and violence and laziness.
Posted by: rjschwarz   2008-02-24 12:23  

#1  It's not ethnicity that's in the way - it's religion. Good night, Europe.
Posted by: gromky   2008-02-24 09:46  

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