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| Britain |
| English Army Running Out Of MGs, esp. Ma-Deuce, Pentagon Says 'No' |
| 2008-02-06 |
| THE Army has run out of machine guns, The Sun can reveal. The crisis is unlikely to be solved before JUNE, a leaked report reveals. British troops "desperately" need 400 of the jumbo 0.5in calibre heavy machine guns – the weapon most acutely missed. The Army has also run out of the 7.62mm GPMG and Minimis. Supply has collapsed partly because of a dispute with the manufacturers, Manroy – which also provides weapons to Saudi Arabia. The leaked report – prepared for the Army’s command centre in Wilton, Wilts – reveals that generals have urged the Ministry of Defence "to prevent Manroy delivering Saudi weapons ahead of our requirement". Generals asked the US to help but were snubbed by the Pentagon – who have dubbed British colleagues "The Borrowers". The report says: "We are trying to get 400 guns transferred from the US. However, the material was provided by US DoD and they are not prepared to release them. MoD-level engagement is needed to try and get these released." The crisis is having a crippling effect on training in the UK – with all available spares being rushed to war zones. Almost HALF the Minimi Light Machine Guns used at Catterick and Brecon are also out of commission. The report adds: "The original spares package was inadequate and usage has been far above that expected. As a result stocks are very fragile." Tory MP and ex-Army officer Patrick Mercer said last night: "Thank God the Army have still got their bayonets – it looks like they may be all they’ll have left. This could have been dealt with months ago. Yet again, our fighting men are being imperilled by MoD incompetence." Last night an MoD spokeswoman insisted: "We have enough guns for operations. We recognised a need to increase overall supply and took steps to address this." By giving welfare to polygamist Muslims. |
| Posted by:Anonymoose |
| #18 I read my comment and I was unclear. I'm a Machinist, I make things out of metal, gun parts are Metal. It's common practice to farm jobs out to several shops depending on what the shops are capable of doing, say one shop makes recievers, one makes barrels, another threads and bores them, still another rifles them, etc. Then all those different "parts" are shipped to an Arsenal for assembly and testing, bingo, no shortage. It's illegal to own a Machine gun, but not the parts, especially when any one place does NOT have all the parts to asemble a working gun. |
| Posted by: Redneck Jim 2008-02-06 23:17 |
| #17 I'm not quite following this, just what's wrong with Britan MAKING THEIR OWN? Unable, (No machine shops?) Unwilling (High price, or simply easier to beg them ?) |
| Posted by: Redneck Jim 2008-02-06 23:05 |
| #16 See also DEFENSETECH.org > GOING FOREIGN AGAIN? Its Cylon Yarn 2015 and the US Global Force = USAF needs a new Tactical airlifter capable of carrying the Army's next generation CSV/CFSV = FCS, AND THE V22 OSPREY TAINT IT! C130's, C5's, and C17's are gone/ended production, BUT IN TRUE USSA = Global USR SSR? AMER FASHION, WHATS "LIGHT" TO THE USDOD MAY BE "HEAVY" TO EVERYONE ELSE. |
| Posted by: JosephMendiola 2008-02-06 19:41 |
| #15 The German's got any? Not like they're using them. |
| Posted by: tu3031 2008-02-06 16:11 |
| #14 Hey, I've got an idea! How about the UK just pay the US for them! |
| Posted by: gorb 2008-02-06 15:55 |
| #13 And to throw on the top of all this, the US stocks of M2s are low due to the increased demand from the new Strykers and other vehicles that use them. Last I heard, one of the factories that was making them was running 3 shifts just to keep up. |
| Posted by: DarthVader 2008-02-06 15:50 |
| #12 Thanks Valentine. |
| Posted by: ed 2008-02-06 15:50 |
| #11 Manroy probably as most manufacturers has a lead time that meant that when their production line for UK machine guns was met they switched over to the production line for the SA set. Which would also imply that they would face pretty stiff penalties for handing over the SA units to the UK MoD without the saudi's approval or some hefty compensation from the MoD for loss of rep and financial damage (which I can just bet the MoD didn't even bother to offer in the first place). Also as far as the statement about the 400 guns goes it could be that Manroy just completed also a batch for the US (we don't just buy em from General Dynamics ya know ), and are waiting to ship in which case the US paid for and bought these items which would cause endless legal issues about ownership if the UK just "borrowed" them. http://manroy.co.uk/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=31 |
| Posted by: Valentine 2008-02-06 15:39 |
| #10 We are trying to get 400 guns transferred from the US. However, the material was provided by US DoD and they are not prepared to release them. Anyone know what this means? Does this mean the HMGs in the UK but the Pentagon says the Brits can't play with them? If the British need any supplies, just give it to them. The US don't need to be like the quarter-masters at Isandlwana. It will only get us all killed. BTW, I didn't know the British made .50 cal machine guns. I thought only the US and Belgians did. Could be they are refurbishing M2s from US stocks. That would make sense from "the material was provided by US DoD." for a UK-Saudi contract and the Brits want to use those. |
| Posted by: ed 2008-02-06 15:24 |
| #9 What about the long bow? |
| Posted by: Jeremiah Glock4046 2008-02-06 12:54 |
| #8 Generals asked the US to help but were snubbed by the Pentagon – who have dubbed British colleagues "The Borrowers". The report says: "We are trying to get 400 guns transferred from the US. No problem. Just ask Prince Andrew to wave his magic wand. |
| Posted by: Excalibur 2008-02-06 12:07 |
| #7 Same pattern of defense procurement as in the 1930's. IIRC it took some of Churchill's best efforts to have even the relatively small number of Hurricanes and Spitfires they did have - with which they managed to hold the Luftwaffe to a near-draw for that first critical 18 months or so. |
| Posted by: Glenmore 2008-02-06 11:50 |
| #6 I'm guessing the reason for the Pentagon's alleged refusal is that there is a deep pattern of failing to fund the MOD, a pattern that Browne openly encouraged under Blair and promised to accelerate now that he's PM. IIRC a senior MOD official resigned a while back over this issue. The involvement of the Saudis is important, as it has been acknowledged that the UK paid bribes to land defense sales to the Sauds. Those who have been paid to buy products from you do not respect you enough to stand aside and let you take your deliveries first, it would seem. |
| Posted by: lotp 2008-02-06 11:44 |
| #5 British troops, historically among the best ever. This has to do with those whose charge is procurement and logistics and hopefully not a purposeful emasculation of the army; what could we cut which seem innocuous but will do harm - but I would shudder at that thought. Cancel the order to SA and others and get those guns on-line yesterday. I hope the UK takes this as "Thank God we are not fighting the Soviet Bear at the beaches." and gets their act together instead of polygamy handouts and free cliterectamys (sp?). BTW Peter Carroll, do I understand correctly that as long as the multi-marriage is in a country where it is legal it transfers? What keeps them from visiting, say Pakistan, as they do already for a bride and coming back with 3 instead of just 1? |
| Posted by: swksvolFF 2008-02-06 11:41 |
| #4 Darth has it about right. Once again, as a Brit, I find this plain embarrassing. And from a US perspective, these are your BEST allies? |
| Posted by: Peter Carroll 2008-02-06 10:56 |
| #3 Picture from the movie, "The Borrowers" (1997): http://i.imdb.com/Photos/Ss/0118755/1-5.jpg |
| Posted by: Anonymoose 2008-02-06 10:27 |
| #2 What about ARMSCOR or DENEL ? Oh, sorry. |
| Posted by: Besoeker 2008-02-06 10:26 |
| #1 The above has been brought to you by your liberal, elite EU government that places personal pleasantries above personal protection. Enjoy your new future with your new Socialist - Fascist - Islamic overlords. |
| Posted by: DarthVader 2008-02-06 10:20 |