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Iraq
Baker wants Israel excluded from regional conference
2006-12-07
The White House has been examining a proposal by James Baker to launch a Middle East peace effort without Israel.

The peace effort would begin with a U.S.-organized conference, dubbed Madrid-2, and contain such U.S. adversaries as Iran and Syria. Officials said Madrid-2 would be promoted as a forum to discuss Iraq's future, but actually focus on Arab demands for Israel to withdraw from territories captured in the 1967 war. They said Israel would not be invited to the conference.

“As Baker sees this, the conference would provide a unique opportunity for the United States to strike a deal without Jewish pressure,” an official said. “This has become the most hottest proposal examined by the foreign policy people over the last month.”
Because it's just Jewish pressure that keeps us from kittens and fluffy bunnies in the Middle East. Always has been. Those pesky Joooz insist on not being murdered.
Officials said Mr. Baker's proposal, reflected in the recommendations of the Iraq Study Group, has been supported by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, Undersecretary of State Nicholas Burns and National Intelligence Director John Negroponte. The most controversial element in the proposal, they said, was Mr. Baker's recommendation for the United States to woo Iran and Syria.

“Here is Syria, which is clearly putting pressure on the Lebanese democracy, is a supporter of terror, is both provisioning and supporting Hezbollah and facilitating Iran in its efforts to support Hezbollah, is supporting the activities of Hamas," National Security Advisor Stephen Hadley told a briefing last week. "This is not a Syria that is on an agenda to bring peace and stability to the region."
Mr. Hadley reads Rantburg; Sec. Rice clearly does not. How in the world would anyone, anyone expect Syria to have a positive role in either Iraq or with Israel? They're presently engulfing Lebanon -- again -- and murdering political opponents there. They're destabilizing Iraq. They're meddling with Jordan. They're in a lip-lock with Iran. Baby Assad is the offspring of Daddy Assad who whacked many ten thousands of his own citizens, and Baby maintains the totalitarian police state because if he doesn't, he'll be swinging from a lamppost ala Mussolini (an apt comparison). Just exactly how does one see him and Syria as a 'partner in peace'?
Officials said the Baker proposal to exclude Israel from a Middle East peace conference garnered support in the wake of Vice President Dick Cheney's visit to Saudi Arabia on Nov. 25. They said Mr. Cheney spent most of his meetings listening to Saudi warnings that Israel, rather than Iran, is the leading cause of instability in the Middle East.
Yup, it's the evil Jooooz who keep trying to defend themselves rather than an aggressive Iran that's enriching uranium, building missiles and exporting terrorism.
“He [Cheney] didn't even get the opportunity to seriously discuss the purpose of his visit—that the Saudis help the Iraqi government and persuade the Sunnis to stop their attacks,” another official familiar with Mr. Cheney’s visit said. “Instead, the Saudis kept saying that they wanted a U.S. initiative to stop the Israelis’ attack in Gaza and Cheney just agreed.”
Because all the attacks on Gaza are unprovoked, e'one knows that. Other than those Qazzam rockets. And the hard boyz slipping across the border to cut throats. And the splodydopes.
Under the Baker proposal, the Bush administration would arrange a Middle East conference that would discuss the future of Iraq and other Middle East issues. Officials said the conference would seek to win Arab support on Iraq in exchange for a U.S. pledge to renew efforts to press Israel to withdraw from the West Bank and Golan Heights.
And that in turn means we have to order the Israelis, on pain of their $3 billion military aid a year, to move out of those areas even if it makes no sense whatsoever.
“Baker sees his plan as containing something for everybody, except perhaps the Israelis,” the official said. “The Syrians would get back the Golan, the Iranians would get U.S. recognition and the Saudis would regain their influence, particularly with the Palestinians.”
And who cares about the Israelis anyway?
Officials said Mr. Baker's influence within the administration and the Republican Party’s leadership stems from support by the president's father as well as former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger. Throughout the current Bush administration, such senior officials as Mr. Hadley and Ms. Rice were said to have been consulting with Brent Scowcroft, the former president's national security advisor, regarded as close to Mr. Baker. “Everybody has fallen in line,” the official said. “Bush is not in the daily loop. He is shocked by the elections and he's hoping for a miracle on Iraq.”
I doubt that seriously -- Bush is not shocked. He's a superb politican; he saw what was coming even as he worked to head it off. And while a miracle would be nice, he's not going to give away the store to get one.
For his part, Mr. Bush has expressed unease in negotiating with Iran. At a Nov. 30 news conference in Amman, Jordan, the president cited Iran's interference in the government of Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri Al Maliki. “We respect their heritage, we respect their history, we respect their traditions,” Mr. Bush said. “I just have a problem with a government that is isolating its people, denying its people benefits that could be had from engagement with the world.”
That was the polite way of saying it. The impolite way is to note that the Mad Mullahs are everything we've said they are here on the Burg.
Mr. Baker's recommendation to woo Iran and Syria has also received support from some in the conservative wing of the GOP. Over the last week, former and current Republican leaders in Congress—convinced of the need for a U.S. withdrawal before the 2008 presidential elections—have called for Iranian and Syrian participation in an effort to stabilize Iraq. “I would look at an entirely new strategy,” former House Speaker Newt Gingrich said. “We have clearly failed in the last three years to achieve the kind of outcome we want.”
It's too bad that Newt the visionary has become Newt the political schemer. He'd sacrifice the essence of the Bush policy -- that 'stability' is a failed model and what's essential is to remove the thugs and provide hope for people -- in return for an election.
In contrast, Defense Department officials have warned against granting a role to Iran and Syria at Israel's expense. They said such a strategy would also end up undermining Arab allies of the United States such as Egypt, Jordan and Morocco.
Because they'll see quickly that, if we sacrifice Iraq and Israel -- especially Israel -- that we won't stand by them in any emergency.
“The regional strategy is a euphemism for throwing Free Iraq to the wolves in its neighborhood: Iran, Syria and Saudi Arabia,” said the Center for Security Policy, regarded as being close to the Pentagon. “If the Baker regional strategy is adopted, we will prove to all the world that it is better to be America's enemy than its friend. Jim Baker's hostility towards the Jews is a matter of record and has endeared him to Israel's foes in the region.”
There's a clear understanding.
But Defense Secretary-designate Robert Gates, a former colleague of Mr. Baker on the Iraq Study Group, has expressed support for U.S. negotiations with Iran and Syria. In response to questions from the Senate Armed Services Committee, which begins confirmation hearings this week, Mr. Gates compared the two U.S. adversaries to the Soviet Union.

“Even in the worst days of the Cold War, the U.S. maintained a dialogue with the Soviet Union and China, and I believe those channels of communication helped us manage many potentially difficult situations,” Mr. Gates said. “Our engagement with Syria need not be unilateral. It could, for instance, take the form of Syrian participation in a regional conference.”
We never got anywhere rewarding the old Soviet Union for their bad behavior. Reagan didn't reward them; he challenged them and they collapsed. We won't get anywhere rewarding Syria or Iran for their bad behavior. We need the Reagan approach. That's the lessson.
Posted by:Steve White

#37  #39: "They will continue to fight until we prove to them that they will either accept defeat or accept total destruction."

Why give 'em a choice, OP?

Total destruction works for me. These nutcases will never accept defeat - so make 'em accept dead.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut   2006-12-07 23:26  

#36  #21 If this government abandons Israel, I'm finished with the Bushies.

If ANY government abandons Israel, the entire nation should abandon that government. Go back and re-read the entire second paragraph of the Declaration of Independence. It may be time to exercise the "reset" button.

#28 - Steve Clear thinking and an iron constitution is what is needed to beat the Islamicists.

Wrong. It's going to take the iron will sufficient to bomb certain Islamist centers back beyond the stone age into the Precambrian to end the war against us. Nothing else will sink through those warped, twisted, one-track minds. They believe their god allan is on their side - we have to prove them wrong. That takes superior firepower and the willingness to use it - any or all of it, as needed. They will continue to fight until we prove to them that they will either accept defeat or accept total destruction. There are NO other options.

#34 Zenster We have conventional weaponry that can replicate the effects of a nuclear bomb. I do think that at some point we must begin a program of massively disproportionate retaliation as a way of polarizing average Muslim opinion away from the Jihadists. Above all, we need to begin "breaking things", without heed of who must repair them. Iran is the starting place with Syria and North Korea on the list immediately thereafter.

The first thing we need to understand is that no muslim is our friend - not one. There are muslims that are not out to kill us - yet - but that doesn't make them "friends". Secondly, we need to understand that we MUST change "hearts and minds" in order to win, because the hearts and minds of muslims is in sync with islam, a destructive death cult. Thirdly, the only way to change the hearts and minds of most arabs is to prove we're the meanest, baddest, most terrible creature on the face of the Earth, and they will do things OUR way, or else they will cease to exist. Everybody tries to keep finding "middle ground". Give up - it doesn't exist. Break them of the way they think, or break them to the point they can't retaliate, or continue to suffer abuse and deaths among our people.

This war began for real in the late 1960's, following the 1967 Israel/Arab war. The only thing that's changed is that the theater of operations has expanded to include the entire planet and all its people. We either fight back with overwhelming force, or we go under. I do NOT intend to live any part of my life as a muslim.
Posted by: Old Patriot   2006-12-07 22:38  

#35  Why should Israel be invited? After all, the Czechs weren't invited to Munich.
Posted by: Jackal   2006-12-07 20:12  

#34  I, for one will not allow Islam to take a civilized country, except maybe France. I'm even ready to fight them for Lebanon. Certainly for Thailand or Nigeria.

Not me, if they're not willing to fight and die for their nation, neither am I. I'll fight to save hearth and home, but not some ungrateful bastards overseas. After we secure the homeland, I might be willing to liberate a few places, as long as there are no silly ROE's to contend with.
Posted by: Mick Dundee   2006-12-07 20:07  

#33  And tired of the wankers in our midst (see, e.g., the Geroge Clooney article), there'll be women waving rifles and shotguns right alongside you.

I'll be the chick with one of these:


and one of these:
Posted by: exJAG   2006-12-07 18:31  

#32  ex-lib, I was thinking about that.
"All the nations turn against Israel"
Well, I guess the end times are upon us. I guess we should take advantage of the few days of peace left to us.
I'm also thinking that the time for us right wingers to get off our fat asses is just around the corner. Maybe in the Spring, or even sooner, we should have a rally in DC with millions of us waving our rifles and shotguns and taking back our country. We already know that the left will not fight, so our only obstacle will be that we have jobs to report to. Like I said, we have to be there. The job can wait, and for that matter the job is nill if we lose this thing.
I, for one will not allow Islam to take a civilized country, except maybe France. I'm even ready to fight them for Lebanon. Certainly for Thailand or Nigeria. If you are a man, by nature, you are willing to not only protect your family with your life, but you are willing to extend the same protection to all women and children, to the tribe, and to the nation, because this nation is worth saving.
Posted by: wxjames   2006-12-07 17:43  

#31   I can't bear to see so many of your people suffering in wars.

I'll freely admit that our soldiers, like so many others, suffer in this war. Fortunately, your soldiers terrorists DIE!

Unilateral use of nukes would turn the entire world, including our best friends (the Aussies) against us. It would be our ruination. We won't nuke the Arab nations unless we're attacked with WMD or we have 100%, stone-cold clear evidence that we're about to be attacked with such.

Thank you, good Doctor, for making a point I am obliged to post here over and over again. Mick, one of the things that differentiates America is its ability to maintain the moral high ground. This is not to say that we must fear becomong terrorists if we fight them on their level, but first use of nuclear weapons is a moral Rubicon that must not, and more importantly, need not be crossed. There may come a time when all evidence points towards such a decision, but we are still years from it.

We have conventional weaponry that can replicate the effects of a nuclear bomb. I do think that at some point we must begin a program of massively disproportionate retaliation as a way of polarizing average Muslim opinion away from the Jihadists. Above all, we need to begin "breaking things", without heed of who must repair them. Iran is the starting place with Syria and North Korea on the list immediately thereafter.

With Iran in particular, there is simply no worse alternative to what exists right now. Anyone else could rush into the power vacuum created by a decapitating strike and things would not be one whit for the worse. Same goes for Syria, at least in that we would interdict the constant formenting of unrest in Lebanon and help Israel get back on its feet.

Much more serious are the prospects of dealing with Pakstan and Saudi Arabia. These two facilitators of international terrorism need to be taken out root and branch. Our worthless alliances with the Saudis are nearly as nettlesome in this respect as how to confiscate or neutralize Pakistan's nuclear arsenal prior to takedown.

More to the point and in agreement with what you posted, our current crop of leaders simply do not have the backbone for a vast majority of these measures. Very few of them are willing to recognize that whether we think so or not, we are in a religious war, one declared by Islam. If we do not get onto a true war-footing soon, America must brace itself for taking some ghastly hits on our own soil. Ones that will make 9-11 look like a picnic.

The prospect of economic set-back arising from such profound atrocities should be enough to motivate any American government of any party to begin a campaign of summarily executing the entire top tier of Islam's command chain and propaganda machine in general. That this reality does not is a resounding condemnation of how badly lost the lessons of WWII have been.
Posted by: Zenster   2006-12-07 14:20  

#30  Welcome to the Brave New World of Jim Baker--an undercover tranzi who was quite effective in bringing down Bush#1, and is in the process of effectively bringing down Bush#2. You've got to give him credit. He's an amazing opportunist, and he's quite adept at studying his target, assessing their personal weaknesses and/or modes of thought operations, and then going in for the "prime dismantling"--all the while, his target(s) believe he's giving really great, on-the-level advice, or perhaps they simply recognize that Baker and his "secret" team are too powerful to resist. Hey--and it must certainly be that Obama/Hilary will be better for business . . .

Side note: for all you Bible-thumpers out there--10 years ago it was truly unthinkable, unimaginable, that "all the nations" would turn against Israel, per the book of Revelation. Now it not only looks possible, but plausible. Unreal.
Posted by: ex-lib   2006-12-07 13:49  

#29  The Chamberlain Commission with Iraq, Lebanon and Israel playing the role of Czechslovakia.
Posted by: danking_70   2006-12-07 13:08  

#28  This is nothing new from Baker. Go back and review his actions from past years. He clearly is anti-Israel and has always been. He is just as detrimental to Israel as our good friend Jimmah. Baker was constantly demanding concessions from Israel his entire time in the Bush I administration. The fool has never accomplished anything of substance yet. This is merely a continuation of his past performance. He is a Saoodi ass kisser par excellance, just like old man Bush. Saud Abdullah calls Bush 41 all the time to relay Saoodi desires and hopes he can still foist these onto any current goverment in power. These two charactwers have been on Saoodi heroin (cash in their secret bank accounts) for far too long to change now.
Posted by: SpecOp35   2006-12-07 11:54  

#27  Unilateral use of nukes would turn the entire world, including our best friends (the Aussies) against us. It would be our ruination. We won't nuke the Arab nations unless we're attacked with WMD or we have 100%, stone-cold clear evidence that we're about to be attacked with such.

So drop the genocide nonsense and think clearly. Clear thinking and an iron constitution is what is needed to beat the Islamicists.


Given the astonishing ease at which they seem to subvert our politicians, culture and society, time is not on our side. The left has been working towards the destruction of Capitalism for a long time, now that they have teamed up with the Islamists the process has accelerated and is picking up momentum.

I've said before, I'll say it again, this could all slide over the edge in the blink of an eye. It is obvious that we're (our leaders) (puke) are going to nothing until it too late. We continue to import this menace into our society, and we have these moldy left overs from the 60's/70's failed statecraft coming back like a herpes flareup to wreak their special havoc! Again!

By the time it gets bad enough that we do actually drop the hammer on them, everyone else in the world will probably be glad. Hell, I'll bet there are bunch now that wish we would get on with it.

Posted by: Mick Dundee   2006-12-07 11:52  

#26  "Let us guide you and protect you."

In the name of the strongest and most intelligent con man, Muhammad, in slavish adoration of his con man idol, Allah.
Posted by: Jules   2006-12-07 11:39  

#25  Mick -- no, we're not going to commit genocide in order to save ourselves. It's not necessary and it's not smart.

Unilateral use of nukes would turn the entire world, including our best friends (the Aussies) against us. It would be our ruination. We won't nuke the Arab nations unless we're attacked with WMD or we have 100%, stone-cold clear evidence that we're about to be attacked with such.

So drop the genocide nonsense and think clearly. Clear thinking and an iron constitution is what is needed to beat the Islamicists.
Posted by: Steve White   2006-12-07 11:29  

#24  Ahh the first winter sighting of a lesser spotted troll ..

It must be lost , they never usually migrate this far west .
Posted by: MacNails   2006-12-07 11:28  

#23  Mick Dundee, are you thinking of the Samson Option?

TW, thank you, that would be the one. The sooner the major population centers of the Arab/Muslim world are radioactive, the sooner this Islam problem will end.

Posted by: Mick Dundee   2006-12-07 11:23  

#22  Good gawd, this is SOOOOO appalling on so many levels, I don't even know where to begin. My two (human) life verses to live by (again):

(1) Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it (See: Chamberlain, Neville and after Vietnam, Cambodia, and most recently, 9/11/2001 - NYC, PA and The Pentagon).
(2) All it takes for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing (See: not defeating Hitler early on, before him "arming up", and not taking Ahmadinijad at his (Hitleran) word).

Oh well, I hold out hope that this ISG Report is DOA at the White House. I pray that Cheney and Bush still have the nerve to smack it down and hard.
Posted by: BA   2006-12-07 11:10  

#21  The options are becoming clearer by the day.

And the nature of current Western "political leaders" too.

What would the Baker Dhimmi Group suggest when Hizb'Allah attacks Israel again?
Posted by: Kalle (kafir forever)   2006-12-07 11:06  

#20  That poor idiot from the Magic Kingdom? Don't let him anywhere near the children, tu3031, his culture teaches him that little children -- especially the boys, beautiful as pearls -- exist to sate his sexual desires, as he once was forced to satisfy those bigger or more powerful than himself. Mr. Wife never went into the coffee houses in that part of the world, preferring to not to have to defend his posterior from unwelcome advances. Ick!

Salaam means peace, thou Arabia-based idiot; Islam means submission, so gettest thyself on with submitting. And yes, I used the archaic, second person singular form used by superiors when talking to their inferiors or to children most deliberately. Thou deservest not the respect of the common you used between equals.

Mick Dundee, are you thinking of the Samson Option?
Posted by: trailing wife   2006-12-07 10:27  

#19  
Posted by: RD   2006-12-07 10:20  

#18  This is why I have called for the razing of DoS.

If this government abandons Israel, I'm finished with the Bushies.
Posted by: SR-71   2006-12-07 10:17  

#17  If these idiots serve Israel up on a platter there will be no place they can hide. Also, I hope the IDF will see the handwritting on the wall in time to seize their government and execute operation "Blow up the Arab World"! I know it is called something else, but I forget the name.

With everthing I see happening, it just confirms my belief that this nation, and the Western Civilizations have been bought and paid for by the Islamists, and our leaders are the Judas's.

I fully believe we are heading for a World War the likes of we cannot imagine. In fact, I believe we are already in it, but the main act has yet to start. If we do survive, we'll need to purge our politicians mercilessly.

Posted by: Mick Dundee   2006-12-07 10:04  

#16  Nah, after that last comment, he's a joke not worth responding to. He's probably as Muslim as I am. The Sierra Club? Ha!
Ya pushed too hard, retard. What time do you have to put on the Santa's elf suit and report to the mall?
Posted by: tu3031   2006-12-07 09:10  

#15  "JUSTICE Return to SPLENDOR" is our old friend "JUSTICE", aka "Truth Has Come", posting from Saudi Arabia.
Posted by: Dave D.   2006-12-07 09:08  

#14  Never mind the /SARCASM flag. How about a /TROLL flag?
Posted by: CrazyFool   2006-12-07 09:04  

#13  I am embarrassed. I used to respect James Baker. I usually am not such a bad judge of character and ability.
Posted by: RWV   2006-12-07 08:58  

#12  I think (hope!) that someone forgot their /SARCASM flag.

Here, take one of mine:

/SARCASM
Posted by: CrazyFool   2006-12-07 08:52  

#11  No thanks, retard.
Now run along and kill somebody who's not Muslim enough. I'm sure they won't be hard to find.
Posted by: tu3031   2006-12-07 08:42  

#10  Is Baker still a registered agent of Saudi?
Posted by: 3dc   2006-12-07 08:28  

#9  Glen Beck interviewed the father of a 11 year old girl yesterday. The little girl told him that the Muslim children are predicting world war.

I wonder if the USA will be on the winning side this time.
Posted by: SR-71   2006-12-07 08:15  

#8  But exJag and Phil -- it worked so well for the South Vietmanese and Cambodians! It worked so well for Neville Chamberlan! What's not to love about this plan?

This isn't a Study Group Report - its the terms of our surrender!

Once again we try appeasing evil and expecting a different outcome.
Posted by: CrazyFool   2006-12-07 08:13  

#7  The strategy seems to be, let's throw Israel to the wolves and see if that solves the problem.

Bingo. Losing Congress, Rumsfeld, and Bolton is depressing. Watching world leaders reach consensus on sacrificing the Jews for an illusory peace is chilling. Not just the fact itself, which is awful enough, but given what usually comes next.

It's been exactly 65 years since Pearl Harbor, long enough to learn the lessons of WWII and forget them again. Guess that means we're due for another good smiting. Idiots, the lot of em.
Posted by: exJAG   2006-12-07 07:50  

#6  I thought the Baker report appalling on so many levels that I didn't know where to begin. The strategy seems to be, let's throw Israel to the wolves and see if that solves the problem. Ignorant and stupid are far too weak words for this arrant nonsense.

Verlaine nailed it yesterday, when he said Iraq's problems originate in Iraq. While those in the region are fuelling it for their own ends, the solution is in Iraq. And BTW, the solution is a federal Iraq with homogenous moreorless populations in the different entities. Failure to recognize this merely drags out the whole thing. The MSM will scream about ethnic cleansing but who cares.
Posted by: phil_b   2006-12-07 02:50  

#5  Â“As Baker sees this, the conference would provide a unique opportunity for the United States to strike a deal without Jewish pressure,” an official said. “This has become the most hottest proposal examined by the foreign policy people over the last month.”

Not only would “Jewish pressure” be absent, but also any sense of moral or ethical responsibility. That always facilitates dealing with Arabs.

“Baker sees his plan as containing something for everybody, except perhaps the Israelis,” the official said. “The Syrians would get back the Golan, the Iranians would get U.S. recognition and the Saudis would regain their influence, particularly with the Palestinians.”

While our betrayal of the Israelis in return for very temporary Arab cooperation, more commonly known as terrorist appeasement, would properly haunt us for decades. We might gain some short-term approbation in the MME (Muslim Middle East) for stabbing Israel in the back this way, but the only long-term result would be to have forever made ourselves a complete and total laughingstock in the eyes of our terrorist enemies. We would permanently lose all credibility and face in any future dealings. Whatever shortcomings Bush may have, I truly doubt he is unable to see this as being the final upshot.

Iran and Syria should be shown only one thing, the back of our hand.
Posted by: Zenster   2006-12-07 02:23  

#4  Baker and his ilk embody everything I despise about the State Dept mentality.
Posted by: .com   2006-12-07 01:56  

#3  BAKER + HAMILTON have already said on FOX that they expect nothing new from Iran or Syria, even iff rhetoric or proposals to contrary. They don't expect Iran or Syria to substantively abide by any peace initiatives. IOW, a "peace conference" would only be "going thru the Motions" with no one expecting anything to change or be resolved.
Posted by: JosephMendiola   2006-12-07 01:42  

#2  I want Mr Baker a private citizen just like me, to STFU and sit down, he is a leading surrenderist and part of the SOS. He needs to be back retired and out of the public lime light.

Israel is not the problem. This Arabist asshole Baker will never see that. Perhaps he thinks a cake will sooth Amanutjob? Ossama?
Posted by: Sock Puppet of Doom   2006-12-07 00:41  

#1  Mr. Baker managed to slide in a reference to the so-called "Palestinian Right of Return" as well. link. Thank goodness I'll never be in a position to refuse to invite him to my home.
Posted by: trailing wife   2006-12-07 00:15  

00:00