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Britain
Blair to cut 20% of nuke warheads
2006-12-04
Tony Blair will promise today to cut by a fifth the operational nuclear warheads on Britain's Trident submarines, from 200 to 160, the Guardian understands. The cut is part of the prime minister's campaign to persuade MPs that the government must start work almost immediately on plans detailed in a white paper to build a replacement fleet.

The white paper will also say the new Trident system will cost less than £25bn. But it will say this figure represents 5% of the annual defence budget, and about 0.1% of GDP, Whitehall sources said yesterday. Ministers have rejected claims Britain no longer needs nuclear weapons to deter a potential enemy and have embraced the "insurance policy" argument that it is impossible to predict the shape of threats in 20 years.
Who knows, you might be fighting the French Muslims in 20 years.
The promised reduction in Trident, whose warheads will have been halved from 300 since 1997 when Labour came to power, is unlikely to appease critics of nuclear weapons or MPs in all parties who challenge Downing Street's view that Trident must not only be renewed, but that a decision is urgent.

With a public debate and then a Commons vote in February set to follow the white paper, ministers hope they will win the vote comfortably. But they accept they will need Conservative support to push it through.

Up to 40 Labour MPs oppose nuclear weapons, but the key group Mr Blair seeks to persuade are those, including the Liberal Democrats, who think there is no need to take an early decision. The Tories remain pro-deterrent, but their defence spokesman, Dr Liam Fox, said yesterday they would only "replace it [Trident] when necessary".

One Labour minister seemed confident the government would prevail: "There will be some trouble in the parliamentary party. My activists will not want it, but they will not object to it."

The white paper will also reject arguments urging a delay on a decision to commission new submarines by at least five years, as the Lib Dem leader, Sir Menzies Campbell, and many independent analysts have proposed. Given the long lead times before operational availability - 14 years between the Trident decision and the day it replaced Polaris - it would be too risky. Delay would also not be cost effective, mainly because the nuclear reactors that propel the present boats need replacing soon.
I think they mean that the fuel needs to be replaced; as I understand it that's a costly and time-consuming business.
The white paper will say that a sea-based system is the only "credible" nuclear deterrent, rejecting arguments for land-based cruise missiles. The government has also rejected the argument that a Trident submarine need not be continuously at sea. Instead it will suggest that advances in technology may allow Britain to manage on three rather than four submarines, which would save up to £2bn, one minister said last night.

Anti-nuclear campaigners will step up their protest today. CND and a number of MPs will hand an alternative white paper to No 10 and express concern over the short amount of time being given to discuss the issue. The ArchDruid Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, is also expected today to signal his opposition to replacing the nuclear deterrent.
Is he a religious leader or something?
Posted by:Steve White

#20  I would expect to see the UK navy come to Canada or the United States if the muzzies ever took control in Great Britain. I doubt the subbies would allow those weapons to fall into islamic hands. As for replacing their existing Trident subs, I think we have a few older boats we could refurbish and sell them, cheap, and then recondition their existing vessels while they're using the replacements for "deterrence". I would love to see a British/Canadian/US consortium building much of Britain's future warfighting equipment. Canada NEEDS a couple of Arleigh Burke class DDs, and the Brits might like to buy the JFK when it's retired. Saves a bundle building a new ship.
Posted by: Old Patriot   2006-12-04 14:25  

#19  ...Five is right out...

One of the finest lines in the entire movie along with, "You've got to know these things when you're King."
Posted by: Zenster   2006-12-04 14:15  

#18  What good do nukes do Britain? It's not as if Britain will launch a nuclear attack and the U. S. won't. And if the U. S. does any UK nukes would probably only contribute to fratricide.

The same good they've always done her. I also think that any launch would be sufficiently coordinated whereby there would be staggered arrival of inbound vehicles to avoid fratricide. It would be a critical message for Europe to send by launching a first wave of retaliation for any nuclear assault from the MME (Muslim Middle East). It is also of great importance that the best of our allies not huddle beneath America's nuclear umbrella. They must be seen as having strength of their own so as to distribute the threat of deterrence and maintain a significantly wide dispersion of weapons basing. To do otherwise would focus undue attention solely upon America and is most definitely NOT in our national interest.

these weapons are and always have been intended as a deterrent to France. The need for such deterrence is greater than ever.

Not so. The placement of nuclear weapons in Britain was always, first and foremost, a Cold War deterrent. By comparison, France was much further down the list. However, it is agreed that their continued need for the purposes of deterrence remains unchanged.

And yes, exJAG, it bodes not at all well for the nascent EU that one member might actually require a nuclear deterrent against another. Then again, France is rapidly assuming the proportions of a special case due to its EAD (European-Arab Dialogue) and quantity of Muslim colonizers.
Posted by: Zenster   2006-12-04 14:12  

#17  Why cut at all? The British Tridents are already way underarmed (3x100kT warheads, US 8x475kT). The US is upgrading Trident missile guidance systems and extending it's service life. I suspect the British will get those for free or little money because all the Tridents come from a common pool. If the British really want to save money, instead of being no nukes ninnies, they should buy into the successor of the Ohio class and build it in their shipyards if they choose.
Posted by: ed   2006-12-04 13:19  

#16  That's right, Mac. Only at the 'burg could you discuss the Holy Handgrenade of Antioch in the same serious discussions of nuclear diarmament, lol!
Posted by: BA   2006-12-04 11:51  

#15  lol@this thread ...
Posted by: MacNails   2006-12-04 11:22  

#14  Interesting point, Excalibur. So France and Britain have invested all these decades in the grand project of European integration ("ever closer union") . . . yet still need a nuclear deterrent against each other.

Like the historically bitter rivals, Texas and North Dakota. ;)

Posted by: exJAG   2006-12-04 10:29  

#13  British conventional forces aren't doing so hot, either.
Posted by: mrp   2006-12-04 10:20  

#12  ...Five is right out...
Posted by: badanov   2006-12-04 10:15  

#11  While I sympathize with Nimble Spemble I feel obligated to point out these weapons are and always have been intended as a deterrent to France. The need for such deterrence is greater than ever.
Posted by: Excalibur   2006-12-04 10:13  

#10  For your collection, AC...
Posted by: .com   2006-12-04 10:11  

#9  Does anyone else get the feeling that, in the midst of Iran trying to come online with nuclear bombs, such a roll-back in atomic weapons inventory is nothing short of silly?

Not here. What good do nukes do Britain? It's not as if Britain will launch a nuclear attack and the U. S. won't. And if the U. S. does any UK nukes would probably only contribute to fratricide.

And in order to use them, you have to have the will to use them. Britain clearly does not. I'd rather see the budget used to properly equip the squaddies so that they can fight on the same battlefield as the Americans rather than squandered on systems that will never be used.
Posted by: Nimble Spemble   2006-12-04 07:19  

#8  Do you think France collaborating will work as "well" as it did last time?
Posted by: Bright Pebbles in Blairistan   2006-12-04 05:54  

#7  Does anyone else get the feeling that, in the midst of Iran trying to come online with nuclear bombs, such a roll-back in atomic weapons inventory is nothing short of silly?

I agree with exJAG that, so long as Europe is acting like they're going to roll over for their Islamic colonizers, a reduction in whatever arms that can fall into Muslim hands can only be a good thing. Still, the timing seems a little off.

It's pretty damn clear that the free world is heading into a perfect storm. With Russia and China (not to mention France) colluding with Islam and triangulating against Western interests at every turn, keeping whatever existing nuclear weapons inventories functional without any voluntary reduction in head-count would certainly seem like the wisest option.
Posted by: Zenster   2006-12-04 05:38  

#6  The BBC and the TRNAZIs that it represents are hammer and tongs agaist anything nuclear, weapons, power, whatever. The Trident program is a hard thing to sell due to the fifth column of the BBC and "new labor" back benchers of Blair's own party.
Posted by: Sock Puppet of Doom   2006-12-04 04:45  

#5  In a way, this is a welcome development. With little indication that they intend to resist being conquered by their Islamist "guests," I'm no longer real comfortable with France and Britain being nuclear powers (the only two in Europe, no less).

Even in a worst-case scenario, I'm sure that getting operational control over a Trident sub armed with nuclear missiles would have to be accomplished over the crew's dead bodies. However, generally speaking, if European leaders aren't gonna get off the dime and fight for what's theirs, reducing the loot is the next best option. I'd appreciate it if they'd at least make sure they don't take the rest of us down with 'em.
Posted by: exJAG   2006-12-04 02:43  

#4  See also NAVY TIMES > US House Armed Services Cmte Members WANTS NEW CONGRESS TO BUILD MORE SHIPS, ESPEC NUKE-POWERED CGN's =CGN(X)'s. America's ACHILLES HEEL = FUEL, thus desire for nuke power. ZEE NEWS > CHINA [pro-Chicom Nations/Neutral Trading Partners]SHAPE MARITIME BATTLEFIELD [in ASIA-PACIFIC]; + CHINA WILL NOT ENGAGE IN ARMS RACE WITH USA > Xperts claim will put a drag on China's pace of national-econ development and modernization. SUNDAYTIMES.UK > Proposal for Britain's TRIDENT Subs to Be built overseas [i.e. SSSSSSSHHHHH, in America?].
Posted by: JosephMendiola   2006-12-04 01:33  

#3  They'll just stash the Trident rounds at Kingsbay, do we maintain their warheads too?
Posted by: Shipman   2006-12-04 01:08  

#2  Various mil forums/blogs are also reporting that the Euros are quarreling over the costs of their CVF carrier project, espec whom will pay what???
Posted by: JosephMendiola   2006-12-04 00:15  

#1  They'll be down to the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch before long.
Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy   2006-12-04 00:10  

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