| Submit your comments on this article |
| Olde Tyme Religion |
| Chief Rabbi unhappy with Pope's condemnation of Islam |
| 2006-09-18 |
| In an official statement presented to Muslim leaders over the weekend, Chief Sephardi Rabbi Shlomo Amar expressed sorrow over Pope Benedict XVI's condemnation of Islam. "I am very sorry about the deprecating things said against Islam," said Amar, in a letter that seemed to put the blame for the turmoil between Muslims and Christians on the shoulders of the Pope. "Our way is to respect all religions, nations and peoples according to their customs," continued Amar. "As the prophet [Micah] said: 'For let all people walk everyone in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the Lord our God for ever and ever. "And even when there is a struggle between peoples it is wrong to make it a religious struggle. Love truth and peace.'" Fruman passed on Amar's statement to Sheikh Abdala Nimer Darwish, head of the Israeli Islamic Movement's moderate wing who relayed it to Sheikh Yusef Darwish, a popular Muslim leader living in Qatar. In an interview with the Jerusalem Post, Amar called on both Christians and Muslims to put their differences behind them. "These are two religions that have millions of followers," said Amar. "If they start quarreling who knows where it will lead. Both must stop the unnecessary talk and actions." Only after being questioned repeatedly was Amar willing to denounce Muslim violence against Churches in the Holy Land. "Our Muslim brothers would add respect to their religion if they outdid themselves and overcame the feelings of humiliation." |
| Posted by:Fred |
| #23 I dont think R. Amar meant everyone should believe the same thing. I don't think that Steve was saying that they should. He was simply stating his belief and noting that it was a difference that could not be reconciled by accepting Islam by the Sword. Sometimes it seems that all beliefs, no matter how anti-social, are acceptable to "liberals" except Christianity. JMHO |
| Posted by: tabd 2006-09-18 14:15 |
| #22 Actually, LOPT, de-hellenization is to me less of a problem than those who would de-hebrewize christianity and leave just another hellenistic mystery cult in its wake. But maybe that's a comment for another time, and I've, er, pontificated enough on religious matters for today. |
| Posted by: Phil 2006-09-18 11:33 |
| #21 "We can't put our differences behind us. I believe in God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. They don't. That can't be reconciled. End of discussion." I dont think R. Amar meant everyone should believe the same thing. |
| Posted by: liberalhawk 2006-09-18 11:01 |
| #20 Way to get R. Amar upset with Muslims. Tell him theyre actually Reform :) |
| Posted by: liberalhawk 2006-09-18 10:59 |
| #19 This is apropos: So what was the pope really saying in that lecture he gave in Regensburg, his old stamping ground in Bavaria? It was a rich and elegant reflection on the rationality of faith, couched in the erudite language of a very German philosophical discourse. But the message was, at heart, a straightforward one. The Jewish or Christian God acts in accordance with reason: In the beginning was the Word, the Logos. Benedict emphasizes that this new, logocentric understanding of God is already present in the Hebrew Bible, long before the fusion of Jerusalem and Athens in the New Testament. Our knowledge of God — the God of Israel or the God of Christianity — emerges in the unfolding of the encounter between faith and reason. The contribution of Hellenic thought to this gradual enlightenment is, for Benedict, essential. He laments the "dehellenization" of Christianity ... Its effect, he thinks, has been to "relegate religion to the realm of subcultures" and to treat scientific rationality as if it had nothing whatever to do with faith. "The West has long been endangered by this aversion to the questions which underlie its rationality," he warns. If the West ignores this theological perspective, it "can only suffer great harm." But the Pope was saying that there is an alternative to the Jewish or Christian God: the God of medieval Islam. Allah is "absolutely transcendent," above even rationality. Benedict cites a Muslim authority to the effect that "God is not bound even by his own word." It is in this context that the pope invokes the Emperor Manuel II Paleologus, who recorded his dialogue with a learned Persian Muslim about the year 1400. Byzantium would finally succumb to Turkish conquest only half a century later, and Manuel wants to know how the doctrine of jihad can be justified, given that it is incompatible with God as Logos. For this Hellenic Christian, Muhammad's command to spread Islam by the sword must indeed be "evil and inhuman." Years ago a teacher of mine pointed out that whereas shamans in various cultures often see visions, by and large the Hebrew prophets HEAR the word of God. It's an important distinction, for it implies that the prophet and his or her people are actively involved in responding to and interpeting what has been revealed. The poignant story of Abraham struggling with the command to sacrifice Isaac is an example for us all. What we believe to be commanded by God must fit both our faith and our reason, if we are not to be led astray. |
| Posted by: lotp 2006-09-18 10:32 |
| #18 Thank you, mcsegeek1. You said that much better than I. |
| Posted by: trailing wife 2006-09-18 09:04 |
| #17 We can't put our differences behind us. I believe in God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. They don't. That can't be reconciled. End of discussion. Steve, I also believe these things, but let me throw in my 2 cents. The Rabbi believes in Jehovah, the God of the Bible as well. But that's not the crux of the problem. The problem is, what do you believe about people who don't believe the same thing as you? We CAN accomodate the differences between people of differing religious beliefs, as long as their beliefs and ours include tolerating or accomodating people who differ. For a religion whose adherants believe anyone who disagrees must DIE, putting our 'differences' behind us is an impossibility. This is the reason for the total incompatibility of Islam with a civilized world---not the fact that our beliefs differ from theirs. |
| Posted by: mcsegeek1 2006-09-18 08:46 |
| #16 We can't put our differences behind us. I believe in God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. They don't. That can't be reconciled. End of discussion. I do not believe in Jesus and the Holy Spirit either, Steve. And yet we agree that faith is a personal thing -- offered perhaps, but never imposed on others by force. Islam mandates imposing itself by force on others whenever possible, and with that I will never be reconciled. Just because the gentleman is a chief rabbi doesn't mean he isn't a prime idiot, as mhw's post certainly suggests. But in the end this war is not about two religions fighting for primacy; it's about free men refusing to be enslaved to the carriers of the latest totalitarian ideology, yet another one whose byword is, "First we kill all the Jews, then we'll finish off the rest of you... unless you surrender and join us." |
| Posted by: trailing wife 2006-09-18 07:46 |
| #15 I've met this fellow. He doesn't speak English. Doesn't seem to actually like non sephardi jews. Doesn't trust other rabbis to do proper conversions. Etc. |
| Posted by: mhw 2006-09-18 06:41 |
| #14 I'll note he's the Chief Sephardi Rabbi. His primary concern is probably damage control on behalf of the small jewish communities that still exist in some Arab countries. If you are going to burn down a church, you might as well burn down a synagoge while you have the petrol and mob handy. |
| Posted by: phil_b 2006-09-18 06:17 |
| #13 Stupidity is the dominant force in human affairs. Thank you, gromgoru, for reaffirming what tabd struggled with so much difficulty to convey. As Einstein said, "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." |
| Posted by: Zenster 2006-09-18 06:03 |
| #12 Stupidity is the dominant force in human affairs. |
| Posted by: gromgoru 2006-09-18 05:05 |
| #11 I'll take you at your word. Just this once. |
| Posted by: Zenster 2006-09-18 04:33 |
| #10 My apologies. I have misjudged you. |
| Posted by: tired and beat down 2006-09-18 03:44 |
| #9 Just so your last lonely neuron doesn't misfire: a-nal-o-gy - [uh-nal-uh-jee] –noun, plural -gies. 1. a similarity between like features of two things, on which a comparison may be based: the analogy between the heart and a pump. 2. similarity or comparability: I see no analogy between your problem and mine. |
| Posted by: Zenster 2006-09-18 03:30 |
| #8 Ummmm ... no. Your definition of "smart enough" probably varies quite significantly with mine. Big clue: loathe - [lohth] –verb (used with object), loathed, loath-ing. to feel disgust or intense aversion for; abhor: I loathe people who spread malicious gossip. —Synonyms detest, abominate, hate. All better? |
| Posted by: Zenster 2006-09-18 03:23 |
| #7 It's an analogy. I'm sure you are smart enough to make the connection. |
| Posted by: tired and beat down 2006-09-18 02:58 |
| #6 Pray tell, tabd, where in the world do I make any mention of "free speech" or the stifling thereof? This oughta be good. |
| Posted by: Zenster 2006-09-18 02:58 |
| #5 Christians now have their golden opportunity to learn about loathing Islam That makes no sense. Would you say that "People who believe in freedom of speech now have their golden opportunity to learn to stifle speech?" That you don't allow people to yell fire in a crowded theater or to slander others does not mean that those who believe in free speech would relish an opportunity to prosecute those who threaten free speech by abusing it. But sometimes you do what you have to do. |
| Posted by: tired and beat down 2006-09-18 02:52 |
| #4 "Our way is to respect all religions, nations and peoples according to their customs," continued Amar. Nice shot at moral equivalency, but this Rabbi is teched in the haid. Christians and Jews don't cut off heads, hands and genitals. He fails to explain how one is supposed to "respect" that sort of psychotic bullshit. "And even when there is a struggle between peoples it is wrong to make it a religious struggle." Yet, somehow this dweeb manages to omit how it is Islam, and Islam alone, that has turned every aspect of this conflict into a "religious struggle". "Love truth and peace." Glaring omission there, he left out the brown rice. Steve, if the differences you speak of are things like 9-11 and Islam's hypocriitcal persecution of "people of the book", then I'm behind you 100%. If the differences you cite are something other than what I've referred to, please clarify. Christians now have their golden opportunity to learn about loathing Islam. I'll even go so far to say that hatred may come into play. In this case, hatred probably is a family value, because a healthy hatred of Islam is about the only thing guaranteed to keep Christian families alive in the face of Islamic fascism. |
| Posted by: Zenster 2006-09-18 02:39 |
| #3 "And even when there is a struggle between peoples it is wrong to make it a religious struggle. Love truth and peace.'" Why didn't he just say "ditto"? Ooooh, he's going to pay for that! |
| Posted by: gorb 2006-09-18 02:28 |
| #2 We can't put our differences behind us. I believe in God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. They don't. That can't be reconciled. End of discussion. |
| Posted by: Steve White 2006-09-18 01:43 |
| #1 Amar called on both Christians and Muslims to put their differences behind them I guess it depends on what he means by "differences". But you have to admire his courage, standing up and admonishing those fanatical, rabid Christians for calling attention to the murder comitted by Islamics. |
| Posted by: tired and beat down 2006-09-18 00:44 |