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| Israel-Palestine-Jordan |
| Palestinian self-destructiveness |
| 2006-07-10 |
| by Garance Franke-Ruta, The American Prospect "TAPPED" blog Avi Issacharoff reported [in Ha'aretz] that there is considerable Palestinian support for more kidnappings: Of the 1,197 respondents from the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, 66.8 percent expressed support for further kidnappings of Israeli civilians while 77.2 percent backed the Kerem Shalom tunnel operation and subsequent kidnapping of Israel Defense Forces Corporal Gilad Shalit. That's a shockingly high level of optimism, when you think about it, given the unfolding disaster in Gaza -- and also a surprisingly high level of enthusiasm for further provocative actions by people who readily admit that they know better than to expect a positive result from the present one. Of course, consciously self-destructive behavior in the interest of hurting one's enemy is also the dynamic behind suicide bombings, which have found similarly high levels of support in polls of Palestinians, so plus ça change and all that. Interesting for two reasons: (1) the self-destructive mentality that advocates a course of conduct with no percieved upside (in contrast, up until the very end of WWII, the Japanese sincerely believed that kamikaze attacks and similar tactics would turn the tide of the war and benefit the country, even though they were obviously terminal for the participants) and (2) the fact that this gets noted with a clear eye by a left-of-center writer in a left-of-center publication like TAP. |
| Posted by:Mike |
| #13 And those statements, MM, which I will tacitly acknowledge are probably factual, do not change anything, as far as I can see. The Paleos are hell-bent for self-destruction and I hope Israel has the will to help them at every opportunity. It is certainly factual that Israel must assume the worst, plan for it, and take decisive action in self-preservation. The current campaign into Gaza to try to force the release of Gilad Shalit is excruciatingly slow and, from any perspective, puzzling in its pace. Or lack of pace. I wish Olmert would put enough force into this operation to make it successful and pull no punches. The only thing he has done since it began which I find encouraging is that he says he will not negotiate, as there are nothing but terrorists with which to do so, and that Israel will not leave until Shalit's fate is resolved. I pray he will not allow the fools who infest his government, as they do ours, weaken his resolve. I've read many, many, opinions here and one resonates with me: Only one side in this conflict can possibly survive. |
| Posted by: Wheang Spavirong9833 2006-07-10 23:23 |
| #12 Tony is correct. Physical coersion and the threat of being labelled a traitor plays a huge part in shaping this so-called consensus. Of course most Palestinians sincerely hate Israel and want to harm it. But beyond that, they are not really at liberty to discuss or question strategy and tactics openly. They must show solidarity with the most extremist position, which then becomes the default position. Any leader who acknowledges reality and tries to compromise automatically delegitimizes themselves or invites assassination a la Sadat. |
| Posted by: Monsieur Moonbat 2006-07-10 23:04 |
| #11 Interesting post, Mike, and you've made a lot of good points as well. This war is going to take brains as well as brawn to win, and we can't afford to squander the support of Muslims who prefer our side to that of the fascists. |
| Posted by: ryuge 2006-07-10 20:32 |
| #10 "...what can you do?" Assume the worst, Tony, they're Paleos. |
| Posted by: Wheang Spavirong9833 2006-07-10 19:44 |
| #9 I'm sorry but this poll was discussed yesterday - you cannot trust a poll coming out of the West Bank or Gaza. Why? well, who's doing the polling? Girl Scouts of America, Gallup or someone who has some Hamas 'minders' behind them (because after all these are rough neighbourhoods you know, and you may not know your way around). Assuming that Western opinion poll methods work in a place where people can be taken outside and summarily shot because they were 'collaborating with Israel' is just delusional. This does, of course, make it more difficult to find out what's really going on in there, but what can you do? |
| Posted by: Tony (UK) 2006-07-10 19:13 |
| #8 Jim: With all due respect, I'm not going to call people who do this, or this, or this "roaches." They're not. |
| Posted by: Mike 2006-07-10 18:03 |
| #7 You are trying to apply human qualities to roaches. It will not work. |
| Posted by: bigjim-ky 2006-07-10 17:01 |
| #6 You might ask the Iraqis about that . . . you know, the ones that voted in three national elections in the face of terrorist threats? Or maybe the Turks (not exactly friendlies these past few years, but they know how to run a modern society). Or the Kurds. I won't deny that Palestinian society is a train wreck, but I think that has less to do with Islam than with the uniquely messed-up nature of the Palestinian "society"--and the neighboring despots (*cough* Syria! *cough*) and more distant America-haters (*cough* Iran! *cough* Jimmy Carter! *cough*) who are the Palestinians' enablers and manipulators. I also won't deny that Wahabbi Islam is one seriously messed up religion. On the other hand, we should not forget that there are millions of Moslems out there who are friendlies, many of whom are putting their lives on the line so Americans don't have to. |
| Posted by: Mike 2006-07-10 16:59 |
| #5 Hey, SPOD, you think Paleos (or any other bunch of Muslims) are capable of one state solution? |
| Posted by: gromgoru 2006-07-10 16:39 |
| #4 The Paleo's must go. Dead or alive they must go. There is no other way left open. The UN and EUropeans need to look at reality. There will never be a 2 state solution the Paloes are incapable of it. |
| Posted by: Sock Puppet of Doom 2006-07-10 16:08 |
| #3 I think you are right Anonymoose. This whole business is about psychological rewards to the Palestinians. |
| Posted by: buwaya 2006-07-10 15:00 |
| #2 Once again, blame is shared with the Israelis, whose co-dependent behavior supports and nourishes the Paleos. The need to adopt a philosophy of "gain", that is, do not fight to maintain the status quo, fight to achieve advantage. Every action against the Paleos should result in the Paleos losing something and the Israelis gaining something. Something finite. Like land or life. If the Israelis confiscated land for every affront committed by the Paleos, soon either the Paleos would quit being obnoxious, or there would be no more Paleos in country. But the Israelis keep playing a damn stalemate, a zero-sum gain, that just guarantees that the Paleos will never stop in their violence, and that the murderous cancer will continue. |
| Posted by: Anonymoose 2006-07-10 12:55 |
| #1 I have a different take on these numbers. I believe that when you net it all out, the paleos like the international commiseration and support that comes with their self-imposed victimhood. They're not starving. They're not disease-infested. They're not like the babies we used to watch in Biafra. So they're not suffering (although they'd love people to think they are). Humanitarian disaster? Let the UN look to Africa. Oh. I forgot. Oil-rich arab countries can't use Africa as pawns. Which means there's no humanitarian disaster there. |
| Posted by: PlanetDan 2006-07-10 12:30 |