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Britain
St George Too Offensive To Be Britain's Patron Saint?
2006-07-06
His dragon-slaying heroics have kept his legend alive through the centuries. But the Church of England is considering rejecting England's patron saint St George on the grounds that his image is too warlike and may offend Muslims.

Clergy have started a campaign to replace George with St Alban, a Christian martyr in Roman Britain. Y'know, it's still not the right image, guys. He died for the Christian faith, after he allowed a priest to escape punishment by changing garments with him. How about Brave Sir Robin?

The scheme, to be considered by the Church's parliament, the General Synod, has met a cautious but sympathetic response from senior bishops.

But it clashes with the increasing popularity of the saint and his flag in England. The World Cup brought out millions of St George crosses as the symbol became increasingly mainstream and less frequently dismissed as a badge favoured only by far-Right political activists.

If St Alban replaced St George, the red cross on a white background would have to be replaced as England's flag by Alban's symbol, a diagonal yellow cross on a blue background that bears a strong similarity to St Andrew's cross, the flag of Scotland. If he became the patron saint, wouldn't that mean they would have to change the UK flag, too?

The proposal has been put forward by the Rev Philip Chester, vicar of St Matthew's, Westminster, who has called the use of St George as patron saint 'dotty'.

His call for a change is based on the lack of firm historical evidence that George - said to be a Roman general from the 4th century AD who was put to death by Emperor Diocletian for professing Christianity - ever existed. He said: 'We are sure St Alban is a real figure. What's more, he lived in this country.' So did St Augustine of Canterbury or St Cuthbert, but I guess that whole evangelizing for Christ thing is completely non-PC. That might mean that you think Christianity is superior, and some Orthodox Reformed Wiccans might be offended by that.

Archdruid Archbishop of Canterbury Dr Rowan Williams indicated support for an upgrade for Alban, although he is said to be cautious about relegation for George. He told the Sunday Times: 'I think St Alban is irreplaceable in the history of English Christianity. Perhaps we ought to raise his profile because it's the beginning of the church in this country with martyrdom, wisdom and courage.'

The image of St George was used to foster patriotism in 1940, when King George VI inaugurated the George Cross for civilian acts of the greatest bravery. The medal bears a depiction of the saint slaying the dragon.

However, George has become unfashionable among all the "right" people politicians and bureaucrats. His saint's day, April 23, has no official celebration in England, and councils have banned the St George flag from their buildings and vehicles during the World Cup. Wait till they get a load of how us Lithuanians depict St George, since we also claim him as a patron saint. He's always in full armor, on his horse, brandishing a weapon, sometimes running over and stabbing the dragon. He either carries his red cross over white banner or it is part of his breastplate. The flag by itself is tame compared to that...and no, Lithuanians don't particularily care who we offend with it.
And don't get us going on the Poles.....

The saint became an English hero during the crusades against the Muslim armies that captured Jerusalem in the 11th century. An apparition of George is said to have appeared to the crusader army at the Battle of Antioch in 1098. His dragon-slaying legend is thought to have begun as an allegory of Diocletian's persecution of Christians.

Alban was martyred in 304 AD on the site of St Albans abbey in the Hertfordshire city that now bears his name. A Roman army officer, he was said to have converted after sheltering a Christian.

Here's what the Catholic Forum has to say about the legend of St George: "A dragon lived in a lake near Silena, Libya. Whole armies had gone up against this fierce creature, and had gone down in painful defeat. The monster ate two sheep each day; when mutton was scarce, lots were drawn in local villages, and maidens were substituted for sheep. Into this country came Saint George. Hearing the story on a day when a princess was to be eaten, he crossed himself, rode to battle against the serpent, and killed it with a single blow with his lance. George then held forth with a magnificent sermon, and converted the locals. Given a large reward by the king, George distributed it to the poor, then rode away." Yep, nothing honorable in that legend. Nope, not a thing.
Posted by:Swamp Blondie

#25  How 'bout one of my personal favorites - St. Winston:

Posted by: DMFD   2006-07-06 23:28  

#24  It is official, England is surrendering to Islam.
Posted by: DarthVader   2006-07-06 23:09  

#23  How about a white cross on a white background as a compromise?

Already taken.
Posted by: Threremp Sholutle2252   2006-07-06 22:39  

#22  Yeah and if the Lithuanians ever get out of line, we can always remind them that it's the Poles patrolling their skies at night :-)
Posted by: Threremp Sholutle2252   2006-07-06 22:37  

#21  If St Alban replaced St George, the red cross on a white background would have to be replaced

How about a white cross on a white background as a compromise?
Posted by: SteveS   2006-07-06 22:36  

#20  Steve, yeah, forgot about that! My bad. But recently it's been the Belorussians who have been the major pains in the ass.

Just remember, any time the Poles get outta line, we can always remind them that John Paul II was half Lithuanian, and that's obviously where he got all his smarts. ;)
Posted by: Swamp Blondie   2006-07-06 20:33  

#19  how kum dragenz never eet men?
Posted by: muck4doo   2006-07-06 20:10  

#18  Lets not forget it was a Polish General who engineered the defeat of the Turks at Vienna in 1452.
And also lets not forget the Spanish Brigade sent to Afghanistan was the St.James Apostella Brigade......that particular St. James got his title for beating the Moors, at the Plain of Stars.(Apostella).
I think we should offend the hell out of them. Call em names, spray pork fat on their dead, raise pigs in their back yard and have large numbers of nubile women run around naked in the streets.....did I mention giving away free beer?
They think we are infidels no matter what we do. We could all be Trappist monks or Carmelites and they would still want to kill us just because we are western and mostly Christian and mainly cause we are not muslim.
Those psychopaths are offended by everything we do........including breathe and they are only appeased when we bleed.
Time for everyone to wake up to the bell and realize we are in a war of cultural survival and there is no peaceful coexistence with them. IT is, sad to say, US or THEM........take your pick, I like Western culture, no matter how flawed it is, compared to the mentally suffocating, repressive, women hating, alternative.
Posted by: Sock Puppet of Doom   2006-07-06 18:00  

#17  How about Brave Sir Robin?

Ouch!
Posted by: Xbalanke   2006-07-06 17:42  

#16  Actually, the Poles aren't that bad.

Oh yeah? What about the Polish magnates in 1429 preventing the crown from Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor getting to Vytautas the Great.

Ok, maybe my grandparents held a grudge.
Posted by: Steve   2006-07-06 17:11  

#15  Howard, the Sunday Times had an article on it too. It's real.
Posted by: JSU   2006-07-06 16:29  

#14  Actually, the Poles aren't that bad.

The Belorussians are the real nutcases (stole our emblem, claim we are part of their territory even though there was never a Grand Duchy of Belorussia as far as I recall, and basically hijack train passengers on the Vilnius-to-Warsaw route by charging them about $30 each to pass through a tiny sliver of Belorussia, among other things.)

It's ok, though. They keep claiming everything their neighbors have is originally theirs, so it's not like they're singling us out. ;)
Posted by: Swamp Blondie   2006-07-06 15:47  

#13   I've always been kind of partial to St. Michael, St. Sebastian, or Maximillian Kolb.

I think that St. George is perfect for England, and should be left alone. I think all the Church of England "priests" who are afraid to "offend" muslims should be dismissed, stripped of any trappings of office, and deported to Zimbabwe. It's time for Britain to stand up and decide if they're going to be a free people or a satrapy of Saudi Arabia. You don't have long to make up your minds.
Posted by: Old Patriot   2006-07-06 15:47  

#12  comparing Lithuanians to Englishmen is kind of like comparing the wolf with the lab

Well, yeah, we've only been officially Christian since 1387, and I'm not too sure it's taken hold yet. ;)
Posted by: Swamp Blondie   2006-07-06 15:24  

#11  Okay, so it was a fable, who gives a shit. It's the symbolism that's important. Good triumphing over evil, courage against grave odds, etc. I.E. - St. Patrick supposedly drove pagan beliefs out of Ireland w/snakes as the symbolism. Maybe they should have a referendum and let the British citizens decide. I've always been kind of partial to St. Michael, St. Sebastian, or Maximillian Kolb.
Posted by: Broadhead6   2006-07-06 14:21  

#10  Richard the Lionheart? The one who nearly bankrupted England to ransom him from that charming Kurd, Saladin? The one so unequipped to rule his kingdom that he didn't even speak the language, but only his mother's French? Out of the frying pan, into the fire, I should think.
Posted by: trailing wife   2006-07-06 13:52  

#9  How about Saint Richard (the Lionhearted)?
Posted by: Anonymoose   2006-07-06 13:04  

#8  comparing Lithuanians to Englishmen is kind of like comparing the wolf with the lab
Posted by: bk   2006-07-06 11:35  

#7  If St Alban replaced St George, the red cross on a white background would have to be replaced as England's flag by Alban's symbol, a diagonal yellow cross on a blue background...
Yellow stripes? Perfect.
Posted by: Angie Schultz   2006-07-06 11:12  

#6  They want to do away with St. George because the dragon complained.
Posted by: Fred   2006-07-06 10:38  

#5  Another missive from Daily Mail Island. Move along please.
Posted by: Howard UK   2006-07-06 10:23  

#4  Better clean up Shakespeare too,

And you, good yeoman,
Whose limbs were made in England, show us here
The mettle of your pasture; let us swear
That you are worth your breeding; which I doubt not;
For there is none of you so mean and base,
That hath not noble lustre in your eyes.
I see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,
Straining upon the start. The game's afoot:
Follow your spirit, and upon this charge
Cry 'God for Harry, England, and Saint George Albans!'


Far more stirring. If you want to go to war for a train station.
Posted by: Nimble Spemble   2006-07-06 10:17  

#3  This is the exact kind of stuff that depresses me and convince me there's no more of the famed RB Will-To-Live among a large part of Europe.
If we rewrite our History and our very own symbols to please people who are not only hostile, but oppress "us" unbelievers whenever possible, what is our colelctive future? I mean, what's the point of submitting already, to people who are clearly inferior both materially (civilization achievements) and spiritually (I do think christian values and their reformation & enlightenement version are way better than sharia...)? When will we stop seeing ourselves as guilty people who must attone for their sins (thanks to marxism and its assault on western civilization)?
Posted by: anonymous5089   2006-07-06 10:07  

#2  Did the Dragons complain?
Posted by: mojo   2006-07-06 09:58  

#1  Lithuanians don't particularily care who we offend with it.

The Grand Duchy of Lithuania will rise again!
Posted by: Steve   2006-07-06 08:54  

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