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| Fresh Muslim-Jewish Discord on UC Irvine Campus |
| 2006-05-12 |
| Program titles are Controversial events scheduled at UC Irvine next week with such provocative titles as "Holocaust in the Holy Land" and "Israel: The Fourth Reich" are sparking outrage among Jewish students who are asking administrators to denounce aspects of the event. Jewish students and community leaders say the program is the latest in a string of offensive incidents at the university. The U.S. Office for Civil Rights is investigating anti-Semitism at UCI, the first probe of its kind at a college. "Instead of the university being a place for dialogue and discussion of important issues, it's being turned into a platform for hate speech and bigotry," said Rabbi Yonah Bookstein, a spiritual advisor at colleges in Long Beach and Orange County. "This is intentionally inciting and hateful toward the Jewish people of the campus." A complaint filed by the Zionist Organization of America in New York on behalf of Jewish students at UCI prompted the ongoing investigation, said Kenneth L. Marcus, former head of the office and director of the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights. "There are things that are happening on campuses all over the country, but Irvine seems particularly severe to me," said attorney Susan Tuchman, director of the Zionist Organization's Center for Law and Justice. Federal officials say they have seen an escalation in anti-Semitism at universities across the country since 2000, prompting the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights to issue a report on the topic last month. The report, unrelated to UCI, urges university leaders to set a moral example by condemning hate speech. The latest UCI controversy is centered on the Muslim Student Union's "Holocaust in the Holy Land" program scheduled throughout next week. Kareem Elsayed, 20, a member of the group, defended the program titles. The dictionary definition of "holocaust" does not include Jews, he said. "I do understand why they're upset, but of course I disagree," Elsayed said. "We have been doing this kind of programming for years. No matter how you slice The Southern California Council on American-Islamic Relations also defended the students' right, calling the terms debatable, potentially offensive words that stop short of attacking a religion. "We should allow students to debate these topics; otherwise we're not going to go forward in this community," council spokeswoman Sabiha Kahn said. Some Muslims disagreed. Ijaz Sayed, president of the Ahmadi Muslim Student Assn. at UCI, said, "You'll never find us holding an event like thatÂ…. We all have to live on this Earth together and somehow create peace here." Jewish student representatives and Jewish community leaders said they did not want university officials to cancel the event, just criticize the language. "We understand that anti-Zionism week is something we cannot stop because of the university's free-speech policies," said Alex Chazen, 20, president of Anteaters for Israel and the Hillel Jewish Student Union. "But when it comes to the term 'holocaust,' it creates a completely different emotion. It's disrespectful." UCI officials said they would not criticize the event. "This is an issue of free speech," said UCI's dean of students, Sally Peterson, adding that it would be illegal to prevent the program. "Hate speech is also protected speechÂ…. There's no law against being a jerk, basically." Anticipating the controversy, Chancellor Michael V. Drake issued a campuswide message Tuesday. He made no mention of the "Holocaust in the Holy Land" but encouraged those on campus "to show appreciation for one another, for people of diverse opinions, backgrounds and cultures and for ideas that may be different from their own." Muslim students faced their own UCI officials allowed that event to continue. The tension between Jewish and Muslim students goes back several years. In 2002, the Muslim Student Union posted a sign that read "Israelis Attempts at federal mediation, which could have resolved the complaint, failed after the Zionist Organization of America broke off talks last summer because it did not believe the university was willing to change, Tuchman said. Last month, the Commission on Civil Rights said anti-Semitism should not continue under the guise of political discourse. "The fact that it takes place in a public lecture or that it presents itself as being foreign-policy related doesn't make it any less anti-Semitic," Marcus said. "University leadership has a moral obligation to make clear that there are limits on civilized discourse." Moral obligations? Civilized discourse?? How old school! |
| Posted by:ryuge |
| #38 The Primaries have become a joke. By the time we here in the population center get to vote, the competition is over, settled by fourteen pancake eating hayseeds. Not fair. All on one day please. at least quicker . But if you kill the D party what kind of elections can we have ? Granted it's killing itself, and it hurts. I fear a multi-party deal. I don't want presidents elected with 35% of the vote. You could get some really bad guys that way. |
| Posted by: jim#6 2006-05-12 23:43 |
| #37 The Muslims have been out of control at UCI since at least when I was going to grad school. Back then, the MSA put out an issue of their quarterly rag with a big headline, "Jesus is not the Son of God" on the cover and scattered it all all over campus. Pure provocative BS. |
| Posted by: 11A5S 2006-05-12 23:39 |
| #36 jim, I think most here wish the Democrats would accept the reality of this war and act responsibly. The country would be much the better for it. Some are even still registered Democrats, for what that's worth these days, but in some states you have to do that to vote in the primaries. |
| Posted by: trailing wife 2006-05-12 23:37 |
| #35 Parents, children 9/11. Yes this is the stuff that matters. My Ancestors didn't wait for the holocaust, they fled the regular old pogroms. Dad would just mutter some names of ISlands, IWo Guadalcanal Mindanao Louson BAtaan Leyte, Okinawa, places he spent some time. Mom riveted Bombers and worked on the Heavy Water project, and Flying Wing. So when The fit hit the shan, it was like a WWII switch flipped to "on" in my head. Am I a traitor for coninuing to HOPE for the democratic party ? Am I wrong to wish that there were some STATESMAN who was willing to explain the stuff we all obsess on here in stern language to the teaming masses , with the credbility to be heard so we could all get on the same page ? |
| Posted by: jim#6 2006-05-12 23:28 |
| #34 Aaah, but that percentage continues to drop, much to the consternation of the knee-jerkers. And I imagine it's only going to get worse, as the kids who spent 9/11 in lock-down at school hit voting age. |
| Posted by: trailing wife 2006-05-12 23:15 |
| #33 not at all - It was wonderment that so many American Jews(% wise) continue to knee-jerk support the party who hasn't supported them, constantly requiring that Israel do the compromise, with nothing from the other side (see: Carter and Clinton/Oslo). The party that supports and defends Israel and her ideals is the Republican party (Joe L excepted...) |
| Posted by: Frank G 2006-05-12 23:07 |
| #32 jim#6, if they ban you for those opinions, they can ban me, too. But I shouldn't worry too much. Frank, I know you're one of the good guys, but post #16 sounded to me as a blanket condemnation of all Jews -- and I do know you don't mean that. jim, in my Hebrew school the Holocaust survivors told us their stories, and the Persians talked about being chased out after 1948. Now my mother is on the board of the local Holocaust Rememberence society, and makes the rounds of the schools in the area, talking to the kids about growing up under the Nazis. Daddy, on the other hand, is an Israeli -- has some sort of medal from Haganah for whatever he did in/pre-1948 (he won't tell us kids). wxjames, you owe jim#6, me, the rest of the many Jewish Rantburgers, and the increasing percentage of American Jews who've voted, and will continue to vote Republican since 9/11, an apology. Hint: a bit of groveling for your ignorant assumptions would not go amiss. |
| Posted by: trailing wife 2006-05-12 22:40 |
| #31 how do you deal with it? IChing ! ;> |
| Posted by: jim#6 2006-05-12 22:34 |
| #30 dual guilts! how do you deal with it? LOL |
| Posted by: Frank G 2006-05-12 22:27 |
| #29 al Conspiracy" and the same "double-loyalties" argument?.... Well yeah, . How can Catholics not be "Christian enough" ? I always ask. Shit, My wife is Catholic. |
| Posted by: jim#6 2006-05-12 21:59 |
| #28 Absolutely Frank. |
| Posted by: jim#6 2006-05-12 21:57 |
| #27 BTW - I've been to Irvine's campus - nice, but I remember when it was all orange groves....damn |
| Posted by: Frank G 2006-05-12 21:54 |
| #26 So much for the "Papal Conspiracy" and the same "double-loyalties" argument?.... |
| Posted by: Frank G 2006-05-12 21:53 |
| #25 Jim - I'm Catholic, and you will never find a greater defender of Jews and Israel. K? |
| Posted by: Frank G 2006-05-12 21:51 |
| #24 "DAmn my Keyboard "! "firebrands" Please mentally correct typos. |
| Posted by: jim#6 2006-05-12 21:51 |
| #23 Let me unswerve it. Back when I was a young lad in Hebrew school we had a couple of teachers who were young "girebrands". Zionists if you will. They took us down in the basement of the Temple school and educated us on the Holocaust. They showed us films, and warned us that things could change even here, and though they were fired for "scaring the children" and "being radical" the warning stuck. Being an " assimilated " Jew I have spen lots of time in unpolite society, heard what lots of people really think and am probably Hypersensitive. Being Jewish, American and having read "The SAtanic Verses" makes me triply nervous . |
| Posted by: jim#6 2006-05-12 21:50 |
| #22 banning? why? I think that Schumer, et al would sell out Israel (Not Joe, though....he should be a Republican and we give them Arlen - even swap...)...but, agreed , how did the thread swerve? |
| Posted by: Frank G 2006-05-12 21:14 |
| #21 I'd give Lieberman a pass - hell, I'd probably vote for him if he'd leave the Looney Party. But Schumer, Specter, and Levin? I wouldn't give a plug nickel for the lot. Poseurs and assholes all. |
| Posted by: Phiter Phavilet5544 2006-05-12 21:13 |
| #20 Do you really think that Joe Leiberman is Anti-ISrael ? You really think that Arlen Specter is Anti-ISrael . Really think that CArl LEvin is Anti-Military ? This was about JEwish students feeling fear due to revisionist Islamist propaganda on campus. My Commenbt "Canary is a coal mine" WX seems to jump in and say "all the democrat fault" for everything. Tiresome. Calling all demovrats traitors... Tiresome. You want to make fun of Chuck Schumer go ahead. But lumping the other three guys as "Taritors"? Not acceptable . Sorry. y'all can ban me now. |
| Posted by: jim#6 2006-05-12 21:08 |
| #19 on Israel??? |
| Posted by: Frank G 2006-05-12 20:59 |
| #18 It's a legitimate question to pose to American Jews - one they don't want to answer. Because it is NOT a legitimate question. Because from the othere end we have the left ists screaming about the "jewish neocom=n cabal of Perl Feith and Abrahams, or whoever. I'm not going to do the one about progressivism, Jewish guilt, cilvil rights etc. Jews are tire if taking it from every angle and being the perpetual scapegpoat/whipping boy. ( as I think most her know) And American Jews are allowe to have as widely divergent opinions as everyone else thank you. |
| Posted by: jim#6 2006-05-12 20:47 |
| #17 I do not understand why you would want a ONE PARTY SYSTEM. Granted the moonbat wing seems to be in charge. I really doubt that Specter Leiberman and Levin can be classified as "traitors" . I think that's very loose talk. The sooner we toss both the evangelical right and the mooonbat left the better and more sensible things will all look. |
| Posted by: jim#6 2006-05-12 20:39 |
| #16 I'd hope his message was "WTF? Why would American Jews support the Donk Party and how they've got such a history (Clinton/Carter) of caving to Islam and f&^king Israel over..." It's a legitimate question to pose to American Jews - one they don't want to answer. Evangelicals are blamed for supporting Israel because of the "rapture/end times/etc." but those who don't support militarily/politically, and have Jewish blood, should be called the traitors they are. As a Catholic, if I supported the Caliphate, shouldn't I be called on it by my Christian neighbors? |
| Posted by: Frank G 2006-05-12 20:22 |
| #15 "Stories like this always remind me that Chucky Schumer and Carl Levin and Joe Lieberman and Arlen Specter are jews. " And........ Being as I can see your knee jerking from here, I wonder what you are trying to say. Ranking on Schumer.... ok. But do you really think that Leiberman Specter and Levin are, what? How do you figure that these three men are against what you say they are against. Spray the raid directly on the Tucks pad before inerting into anal cavity, shopuld you be able to find it. Should kill that bug. |
| Posted by: jim#6 2006-05-12 19:43 |
| #14 Stories like this always remind me that Chucky Schumer and Carl Levin and Joe Lieberman and Arlen Specter are jews. There's more, mostly leftists, mostly anti-Bush, anti-WOT, anti-conservative, and ptui, anti-military. |
| Posted by: wxjames 2006-05-12 19:06 |
| #13 Controversial events scheduled at UC Irvine next week with such provocative titles as "Holocaust in the Holy Land" I think it's very important that there be discussion of "Holocaust in the Holy Land". No ... not the Israeli - Palestinian conflict, that is not any sort of holocaust. Muslim and kufir alike need to have dialogue over the Muslim Holocaust that is becoming almost inevitable as Islamist terrorism continues to spread. Unless radical measures are taken to genuinely and authentically reform Islam through honest renunciation of violent jihad, the Muslim majority countries are merely so much unfused glass. Quite honestly, the way things are going, not very long from now I will be forced to abandon my opposition to first use of nuclear weapons. Islamists are such a virulent cancer upon this world that radiation treatments are becoming mandatory. |
| Posted by: Zenster 2006-05-12 17:39 |
| #12 "muslims are/will targeted by genocide" Now there's an idea. And its time will come sometime after they detonate the first Islamist's nuke in the US or Israel. They will be eradicated for the cancer that they are. |
| Posted by: Oldspook 2006-05-12 15:46 |
| #11 This whole choosing-a-college thingy is getting easier as the list of those the trailing daughters won't even apply to gets longer. |
| Posted by: trailing wife 2006-05-12 13:57 |
| #10 You left out mass murderer, rapist, theif, warmonger, mysogenist, liar, terrorist, sadist, slaver and narcissist. |
| Posted by: mcsegeek1 2006-05-12 13:56 |
| #9 Mohammed: Paedophile or Bigamist? |
| Posted by: Nimble Spemble 2006-05-12 13:12 |
| #8 Print the Mohammad cartoons in the school newspaper and see what tune they sing. |
| Posted by: DoDo 2006-05-12 13:07 |
| #7 'Hate speech' is protected speech? First I've heard of that -- she might want to let all the other college campuses in the country know. Thanks, Sally, for clearing that up. |
| Posted by: Steve White 2006-05-12 13:05 |
| #6 "This is an issue of free speech," said UCI's dean of students, Sally Peterson, adding that it would be illegal to prevent the program. "Hate speech is also protected speech As long as it directed against Israel and/or Bush/Hitler, right? |
| Posted by: gromgoru 2006-05-12 12:29 |
| #5 "The complaint filed with the Office for Civil Rights also contended that students had been physically threatened and were afraid to wear clothing or jewelry identifying them as Jewish." Canary in a coalmine. |
| Posted by: jim#6 2006-05-12 11:42 |
| #4 dangerous stuff. |
| Posted by: 2b 2006-05-12 11:05 |
| #3 This is because in the worldview they (islamo-leftist subversives) are promoting, the paleo are WWII jews, and the jews are nazis. It plays on the western consciousness like a violin. Also remember that the "muslims are/will targeted by genocide" meme is also being actvely promoted, starting with Iraq. This goes beyong "simple" antizionism. |
| Posted by: anonymous5089 2006-05-12 11:02 |
| #2 This is an attempt to move viewpoints into the "accepted as fact" category. So starting with the premise that there is a "holocaust" only allows for discussion about how bad the holocaust is, not whether there really is one. This needs to be seen for what it is. Stop it now. |
| Posted by: PlanetDan 2006-05-12 10:50 |
| #1 "Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil;" Isa. 5:20 |
| Posted by: mcsegeek1 2006-05-12 09:55 |