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| Europe |
| Turks in Germany Protest Citizenship 'Conscience Test' |
| 2006-01-15 |
| Posted by:lotp |
| #17 I should add that I'm obviously talking about true immigration: a desire to make this one's new home now and into the future as citizens. Illegal immigration for employment or to run drugs etc. is a different matter. |
| Posted by: lotp 2006-01-15 17:47 |
| #16 It's interesting to compare this German attempt to instill reflection and adoption of their norms with the US citizenship process. The former focuses on beliefs. The latter makes sure that the candidate for citizenship understands how our government works and is familiar with the Constitution so that his/her oath of allegiance is an informed one. The general requirements for administrative naturalization include: a period of continuous residence and physical presence in the United States; residence in a particular USCIS District prior to filing; an ability to read, write, and speak English; a knowledge and understanding of U.S. history and government; good moral character; attachment to the principles of the U.S. Constitution; and, favorable disposition toward the United States. We tend to believe that if these apply, you can bring a variety of beliefs and customs to our society and we'll be fine. Aris, that's one difference between your comment re: gays in government and how we see things here. We might differ among ourselves on that question, but so long as we all can honestly and in good faith support the Constitution and our processes for representative government, that's fine. It's how we've absorbed and both changed and been changed by several massive waves of immigration in the last 125 years (especially) without losing our essentially American character as a society. Indeed, that immigration has only enriched us over time. |
| Posted by: lotp 2006-01-15 17:25 |
| #15 Nimble> Have the mohammedans developed a problem with lying on official forms? I suppose it depends on the "mohammedan" in question. More importantly, the point isn't whether an individual can tell a lie on a form. The point is making sure that people have studied the expectations of civilised behaviour. Even lying about them adequately will mean they have to know what they are, and provide justifications for their opinions that are believable. Hopefully obvious copied answers will not be accepted. The last question might ensnare many a Christian... If these Christians have a problem with gay people working in state institutions, then they shouldn't get citizenship either IMO. |
| Posted by: Aris Katsaris 2006-01-15 16:48 |
| #14 Can you imagine the squawk if anyone in the US instituted anything remotely like the German test? |
| Posted by: ex-lib 2006-01-15 14:53 |
| #13 Whatthehell works fine. Thanks Blondie |
| Posted by: Ulotle Wholuse7269 2006-01-15 14:12 |
| #12 The last question might ensnare many a Christian... |
| Posted by: Edward Yee 2006-01-15 13:34 |
| #11 Have the mohammedans developed a problem with lying on official forms? Is this a sign of assimilation? |
| Posted by: Nimble Spemble 2006-01-15 12:56 |
| #10 Plan A - protests Plan B - taqiyya (strategic lying to infidels) |
| Posted by: DMFD 2006-01-15 12:41 |
| #9 Make the questionnaire a standard part of the application process, for all. There are, unfortunately, plenty of non-Muslims who also find equality and freedom objectionable. #27 on Steve's list would tar much of the world's media, and many who already hold German citizenship. It would be very interesting for a survey of German citizens to be done using these questions. I sense a lovely PhD project here. ;-) |
| Posted by: trailing wife 2006-01-15 12:36 |
| #8 Too late, Al - we already know. |
| Posted by: Barbara Skolaut 2006-01-15 12:23 |
| #7 They are protesting because they don't have a conscience and don't want the rest of us to find out. Al |
| Posted by: Frozen Al 2006-01-15 12:08 |
| #6 John's point is brutal. |
| Posted by: 2b 2006-01-15 10:40 |
| #5 This questionaire is "unislamic"? Says a lot about islam. |
| Posted by: john 2006-01-15 10:10 |
| #4 we should have that questionnaire in australian immigration as compulsory. wrong answers don't get let in |
| Posted by: anon1 2006-01-15 09:47 |
| #3 The questions from the test: 1- The constitution of the Federal Republic of Germany is based on a free democratic order. It encompasses the same values as those of the other European Union countries. The protection of human dignity and the state's monopoly on using force are also among the values. In other words, apart from cases of self-defense, nobody other than the state can use force against someone else within the Federal Republic of Germany. The state can use force due to its right stemming from the laws, for example, in ensuring gender equality. Do such principles comply with your beliefs? 2- What do you think about the following statements: âDemocracy is the worst rule. Humankind has experienced nothing worse than democracy. In order to get rid of democracy it is necessary for human beings to understand that democracy will bring no benefits.â 3- Some films, plays and books offend the religious sensitivities of people of different religions. In your opinion, what methods should be employed for the prevention of religious sensitivities from being hurt? 4- What do you think about criticism leveled at a religion? Is it acceptable? Can you cope with this? 5- Political parties and associations that are against the Constitution are banned in Germany. Despite this, would you support a banned party or association? If you do, under what conditions? 6- âWives should obey their husbands but if they do not, then husbands have the right to beat their wives.â What do you think about such opinions? 7- Do you think a husband not allowing his wife or daughter to go out is acceptable behavior? 8- In the face of violence among a couple in Germany, the police can step in and have the right to keep the guilty party outside the home for a couple of days. What do you think of that? 9- Do you see gender equality in Germany under the law as progress? If men do not accept this, then what should the state do? 10- In Germany, everyone can do a job that they want in accordance with their education and abilities. What do you think of that? In your opinion, should some jobs be only handled by men while some others only by women? If you say âyes,â which jobs should be handled by only women or men and why? 11- In your opinion, which jobs should never be done by women? Are there any jobs that would make you uneasy because of a female boss? 12- In Germany, everyone makes their own decision on whether they want to be examined by a male or female doctor. Under some circumstances, there is no time or chance to make a choice, for example, during emergencies or changes in shift. In such a situation, if you are a male would you accept to be examined by a female doctor, or if you are a female would you accept to be examined by a male doctor? 13- Some families are against their adult daughters working in a field of the daughter's choice or marrying a man the family doesn't approve of. What is your approach to this? What would you do if your daughter wants to marry a man of a different religion or if she wants to do a job that you do not approve? 14- What do you think about families who make their children marry by force? Do you think that such marriages concur with human honor? 15- Sports and swimming lessons are a part of basic school education in Germany. Do you approve of your daughter taking part in these classes? If you say âno,â then why not? 16- What do you think about your children taking part in school field trips? 17- Your adult daughter/wife wants to dress in the same way as the other girls and women in Germany. Would you try to prevent her from doing so? If you say âyes,â how would you do so? 18- A question for female applicants for citizenship: If your daughter wants to dress in the same way as German girls, what would you do? 19- If your daughter/sister says she was subjected to sexual harassment, what would you do as a father, mother, elder brother or sister? 20- If your son or brother tells you that his feelings were hurt, what would you do as a father, mother, elder brother or sister? 21- Do you think the Constitution provides an individual with the right to change his religion and lead a life with a different religion? What do you think about an individual who is punished (for example, rejection by family) when he/she converts to another religion? 22- You learned that a terrorist operation is under way. How would you act? What would you do? 23- You heard about the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks in New York and March 11, 2004 attacks in Madrid. In your opinion, were those who carried out the attacks terrorists or freedom fighters? Explain your answer. 24- Newspapers usually cover stories of honor killings. How do you approach this issue? 25- How do you evaluate a man in Germany being married to two women at the same time? 26- What do you think about a married man in Germany returning to his native country and marrying another woman there? 27- Some people think the Jews are responsible for many evil actions in the world and even believe that the Jews were behind the Sept. 11 attacks in New York. What do you think about such assumptions? 28- Your daughter applied for a job in Germany but her application was rejected. Later you heard that an African from Somali was hired for the same position. How would act in the face of such a situation? 29- How would you react if your adult son said he was a homosexual and he wanted to live with a man? 30- Some politicians in Germany are known to be homosexual. What do you think about homosexuals in Germany working in state institutions? |
| Posted by: SteveS 2006-01-15 09:39 |
| #2 The Turkish immigrant community in Germany is protesting a federal state's move to impose and administer a 30-topic ?conscience test? on Muslim applicants for German citizenship. ?This test amounts to Islamophobia and discrimination on the basis of religion,? said Professor Faruk ?en, head of the German-based Center for Studies on Turkey (TAM), in a telephone interview with the Turkish Daily News. In the German state of Baden-Wurtenberg, the use of such a ?loyalty test? for Muslim applicants who want to become German citizens was put into effect on Jan. 1. The questions in the controversial test will be asked of Muslim applicants from 57 countries, including Turkey. Not only Turks and the Muslims Council in Germany but also some Germans reacted angrily to the test, saying it was discriminatory; however, in an earlier response to criticism, the German Interior Ministry reportedly denied discrimination against Muslims. That's the whole story. Doesn't Germany have a state religion? or is that just state by state? |
| Posted by: Nimble Spemble 2006-01-15 09:04 |
| #1 Grr...have to register to read the article. So, for the benefit of the 'burg, I will share my new login and password. login: whatthehell password: okfine Maybe they have a point, however. They should ask everyone applying for citizenship their feelings about Islamofascism, just to drive home the point that it is not welcome. Besides, now that there are idjits like that Belgian broad who blew herself up, you can't just assume an applicant for citizenship doesn't believe that crap based on their original country of birth. |
| Posted by: Desert Blondie 2006-01-15 07:02 |