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| US Army Denies Honor Guard Weapons |
| 2006-01-13 |
| DULUTH, Minn. - Already stressed by the pace of funerals for aging veterans, the leader of an honor guard is incensed by the Army's refusal to allow him to replenish his ranks with the adult children of vets. The problem is a little-known federal statute that bars the Army from giving ceremonial M-1 rifles that are fired during a poignant part of most military funerals to honor guards with non-veteran members. "They want to honor veterans, I don't know why they shouldn't be able to do it," said John Marshall, captain of the Duluth Combined Honor Guard, a group comprised of Legionnaires, the Veterans of Foreign Wars and other service organizations. An estimated 1,800 military veterans die every day across the country, and honor guards such as the one in this northern Minnesota city are struggling to keep up with serving at as many as two or three funerals per day. Marshall, an Army veteran who served in the first Gulf War, would like to supplement his honor guard with members of the Sons of the American Legion — a group comprised of the sons of veterans that is affiliated with the American Legion. "These are our sons and grandsons; these are responsible people. It shouldn't be an issue," said Mike Duggan, the Washington-based deputy director of foreign affairs for the American Legion, a nationwide veterans service organization with more than 3 million members. Army officials, though, said the rule is a necessary one. "These veterans, they've been in the military, they know how to handle a military issue weapon," said Ed Wolverton, chief of the Army donations program at the U.S. Army TACOM Lifestyle Management Command in Warren, Mich. "The sons are often younger folks; they're teenagers sometimes. They've maybe not been trained properly on these weapons — we don't know that. But the vets have." "U.S. Army TACOM Lifestyle Management Command"???...holy sweet Jesus... Wolverton said he has little power to investigate whether honor guards around the country are following the statute. But he won't give weapons or ammunition to those he knows aren't, and said if he finds out the rules are being broken, he will repossess the materials. ...Instead of doing the decent and honorable thing and trying to find a way to resolve this IN FAVOR OF THE VETS... It would take an act of Congress to change the rifle statute, Wolverton said. A spokesman for U.S. Rep. James Oberstar (news, bio, voting record), whose district includes Duluth, said the congressman is looking into the issue. Many veterans organizations around the country didn't know about the statute, and said they regularly augment their honor guards with members of the Sons of the American Legion. But when Marshall tried to do just that, the Army told him no. The Duluth Combined Honor Guard has about 30 members, but Marshall said he can only count on about a dozen to be regularly available to attend veterans' funerals — not only in Duluth but in surrounding communities where local veterans organizations are having even more serious membership problems. "Some of our guys are 86, 89 years old," Marshall said. "There are some younger guys, but they have families, jobs. They don't have time to be running to 11 or 12 funerals a week." In 1999, Congress passed a law ensuring that all veterans could receive full military honors at their funerals. But it failed to include much money for the practice, and the military has largely turned to veterans organizations to provide the service. A few states grant small stipends to honor guards, but Minnesota does not. Marshall said his group's expenses, such as buying uniforms and transportation, are covered by veterans' families who are willing to make donations, and by fundraising. Still, he said, "as long as I'm commander, I won't turn anyone down — anytime, anywhere." Somebody make sure Mr. Marshall gets a serious "thank you" for that. Pat Hogan, commander of the American Legion Post in Keokuk, Iowa, said he regularly augments his honor guard with Sons of the American Legion members — and didn't know it was against the rules. "It should be up to us to take care of our own," Because at the end of the day, nobody else will. Hogan said. "I don't think these guys going to their final rest would mind at all." |
| Posted by:Mike Kozlowski |
| #10 Honors at my father's funeral were done by ROTC cadets. They did a good job. |
| Posted by: SC88 2006-01-13 23:03 |
| #9 I was wrong above. No restrictions were put on reselling Garands bought under the civilian marksmanship program - only the presale background check was required. |
| Posted by: lotp 2006-01-13 20:48 |
| #8 Effing pathetic. Our warriors deserve better. D@mned bureaucrats. |
| Posted by: Zenster 2006-01-13 19:48 |
| #7 This is just one more area where a national militia, fully-trained and equipped, could make a big difference. These "Sons of the American Legion" and any other group, properly organized, should be immediately recognized as a militia organization under the Second Amendment, and not only "allowed" to be armed, but actually given weapons and ammunition for thier various self-assigned or directed missions. The problem is, the Donkeycrats don't want ANY armed Americans, no way, no how. We really need to change the mentality of people in Washington. Unfortunately, I don't think it's possible without manually ejecting about 40 senators and 125 congresscritters - preferably from 40,000 feet without a parachute. |
| Posted by: Old Patriot 2006-01-13 18:50 |
| #6 U.S. Rep. James Oberstar has always been an advocate for Veterans. I trust he will work to find a solution. |
| Posted by: DepotGuy 2006-01-13 15:22 |
| #5 Back in the 70s when the Army had 1 million under arms, the supporting installation would provide honor guards if the funeral was a days drive [to and back, and on exceptional grounds - i.e. CMH, further]. The reg's called for provided free ammo [Krag-Jorgensen's from the Spanish American War!] to vet organizations [VFW, AL] upon request. Two demographic lines intersected in the early 90's. One they more than half'ed the Army while not cutting back on missions and the WWII population started arriving in large numbers to the funeral homes. Something had to give. To support veterans funerals would have taken literally a couple of battalions worth of troops out of the system nationwide just to handle the demand. Didn't we just get through the whining and chest thumping about not having enough troops to accomplish the military commitments in the ME? To the point that Congress had to authorize another 20,000. Congress engages in another round of unresourced mandates when it declares that all veterns should have military honors [by the way, does that include people like Tim McVey?]. Looks good back home, doesn't do squat for anyone when its all show and no meat. Go hammer your Congressperson, they pass the statutes. |
| Posted by: Theper Shaiper3390 2006-01-13 11:37 |
| #4 M1s (either carbine or Garand) should be no harder to buy than any other rifle. They are semi-auto with an 8rd clip so don't fall a foul of all those nast assault weapon issues. They're not cheap, but they are easy. ;^) http://www.miltecharms.com/ |
| Posted by: AlanC 2006-01-13 11:03 |
| #3 And on an individual basis to boot. IIRC the law that allows the M-1s to be sold controls their resale to some degree .... my sig other has one bought directly from the govt a number of years ago. |
| Posted by: lotp 2006-01-13 10:37 |
| #2 "Power to investigate" Weapons and ammo repossession indeed, what an arsss. A typical DA civilian bureaucratic, no-can-do answer, thanks Ed you dick. Kind of flies in the face of the Army "Train the Trainer" philosophy. I say Let the older ones train the younger ones. The manly art of "M1 Thumb" avoidance can be easily trained in about 3-5 minutes. The manual of arms takes a bit longer. I'm sure the Vets will do a fine job of training and not permit the FNG to let them down. Appears we're guarding our own borders, maybe we'll have to buy our own burial detail Garands and ammo as well. My humble opinion as a Life VFW member. |
| Posted by: Besoeker 2006-01-13 10:25 |
| #1 In 1999, Congress passed a law ensuring that all veterans could receive full military honors at their funerals. But it failed to include much money for the practice One root of the problem. Don't know much about all this other than that I think M-1s require a special background check to buy from the feds or through the civilian marksmanship program. FWIW |
| Posted by: lotp 2006-01-13 10:18 |