Must be some special invisible bullets making invisible holes, all 300 - 400 of'em, I guess.
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| Iraq-Jordan |
| Italy Rejects U.S. Version of Iraq Shooting |
| 2005-03-06 |
| ROME (Reuters) - Italian hostage Giuliana Sgrena, shot and wounded after being freed in Iraq, said Sunday U.S. forces may have deliberately targeted her because Washington opposed Italy's policy of dealing with kidnappers. you mean paying large ransoms that allow the kidnappers to expand their ops? She offered no evidence for her claim, but the sentiment reflected growing anger in Italy over the conduct of the war, which has claimed more than 20 Italian lives, including the secret agent who rescued her moments before being killed. a tragedy for him - wasted his life over this commie Friday evening's killing of the agent and wounding of the journalist, who worked for a communist daily, has sparked tension with Italy's U.S. allies and put pressure on Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi to take a hard line with President Bush. The United States has promised a full investigation into incident, in which soldiers fired on the Italians' car as it approached Baghdad airport Friday evening. The U.S. military says the car was speeding toward a checkpoint and ignored warning shots, an explanation denied by government ministers and the driver of the car. Of course Speaking from her hospital bed where she is being treated, Sgrena told Sky Italia TV it was possible the soldiers had targeted her because Washington opposes Italy's dealings with kidnappers that may include ransom payments. Paging Eason Jordan? "The United States doesn't approve of this (ransom) policy and so they try to stop it in any way possible." According to Italy's leading daily Corriere della Sera, the driver, an unidentified Italian agent, said: "We were driving slowly, about 40-50 km/h (25-30 mph)." Italians routinely lie about their speeding.. In a harrowing account of her ordeal, Sgrena wrote in Sunday's Il Manifesto newspaper that the secret agent, Nicola Calipari, saved her life by shielding her with his body. "Nicola threw himself on to protect me and then suddenly I heard his last breath as he died on top of me," she wrote. ewwww PUNISHMENT, APOLOGY Although Italy has denied paying kidnappers in past hostage releases, Agriculture Minister Gianni Alemanno told the Corriere that "very probably" a large ransom had been paid in this case. Italian newspapers have speculated that anything up to 8 million euros ($10 million) may have been paid. that buys a lot of killers and IEDs "We need to get the guilty punished and an apology from the Americans," Alemanno said. "We are trustworthy allies but we must not give the impression of being subordinates." Italy's minister for parliamentary relations, Carlo Giovanardi, has also said he did not believe the U.S. version of events. A national outpouring of grief and anger put pressure on Berlusconi, an ardent supporter of Bush and his war on terror, to get answers from Washington on what went wrong. "All 57 million Italians who were united in the anticipation of Giuliana Sgrena's liberation have the right to know what happened," said Romano Prodi, the former prime minister and leader of Italy's center-left opposition. Berlusconi summoned the U.S. ambassador immediately after the event and will need to present some answers from Washington when he addresses parliament Wednesday. He led Italy into the conflict in Iraq where it has some 3,000 soldiers, a decision opposed by a majority of Italians and the opposition which is seeking to unseat him at a general election next year and weaken him at regional polls next month. So it's a political call for national honor and against Berlusconi, with no proof whatsoever |
| Posted by:Frank G |
| #37 It gets even better... Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera reported yesterday that the Italian Government had paid a ransom of between E6-8million ($10-13.4million) That's a lot of IED this chunk can buy. |
| Posted by: Sobiesky 2005-03-06 9:56:30 PM |
| #36 "We're sorry you're jihadi-appeasing, gutless, commie-loving dumbasses?" Sigh. This is sooo like Rooters/AP/AFP/Tranzi/et al... and so unlike Berlesconi. |
| Posted by: .com 2005-03-06 9:12:30 PM |
| #35 Giuliana Sgrena, who writes for the communist newspaper Il Manifesto, described how she was wounded and Italian intelligence officer Nicola Calipari was killed as she was celebrating her freedom on the way to the airport. The shooting Friday has fueled anti-American sentiment in a country where people are deeply opposed to U.S. policy in Iraq. âI remember only fire,â she said in her article. âAt that point a rain of fire and bullets came at us, forever silencing the happy voices from a few minutes earlier.â Sgrena said the driver began shouting that they were Italian, then âNicola Calipari dove on top of me to protect me and immediately, and I mean immediately, I felt his last breath as he died on me.â Suddenly, she said, she remembered her captorsâ warning her âto be careful because the Americans donât want you to return.â The last sentence may be a slip that leads me to believe she was on it from the beginning. I mean, she is a fundraiser for jihadis, like I suspected of the other 2 italian biatches about half an year ago. |
| Posted by: Sobiesky 2005-03-06 9:12:15 PM |
| #34 We should apologize and punish the guilty. The Italian government is guilty for paying ransom to terrorists and thus funding terrorism. The Italian driver is guilty for approaching an American checkpoint like an Italian driver. The commie is guilty for offering no evidence for her libelous claim. |
| Posted by: Tom 2005-03-06 9:06:46 PM |
| #33 One would expect responsible news reporters to know better than using such misleading images in this context. Kalle, there is a remote possibility that whoever made decision to use that picture may have done it to hint that the whole story is tainted. |
| Posted by: Sobiesky 2005-03-06 8:50:25 PM |
| #32 Rome 'paid millions' for reporter's release in Iraq - March 7, 2005 The Italian government paid up to $US6 million ($A7.67 million) for the release of kidnapped journalist Giuliana Sgrena in Iraq, the Milan-based Corriere della Sera reported, citing a senior Iraqi politician. Italian media also reported Italian state prosecutors had launched a manslaughter investigation into the fatal shooting by US troops of Italian agent Nicola Calipari which occurred as Sgrena was taken to Baghdad airport following her release. The kidnappers had been loyalists of former Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein, who had increased their ransom demands from an initial $US1 million ($A1.28 million), Younademn Kana, Iraqi MP and ex-member of the former provisional governing council was quoted as saying. The ransom was handed over by Italian agents to mediators in Abu Dhabi, the newspaper La Repubblica wrote. Un-freaggin-believable! $6M for this commie POS! |
| Posted by: Sobiesky 2005-03-06 8:47:13 PM |
| #31 It's worse than that. The picture shows a car hit by her car as she was kidnapped one month ago. One would expect responsible news reporters to know better than using such misleading images in this context. |
| Posted by: Kalle (kafir forever) 2005-03-06 8:22:16 PM |
| #30 #24, Mrs. Davis. |
| Posted by: Sobiesky 2005-03-06 7:57:00 PM |
| #29 That's a photo of the car she was kidnapped in not the one in which she was shot at by US troops. |
| Posted by: Mrs. Davis 2005-03-06 7:47:30 PM |
| #28 I gotta get off meth. Does it make... |
| Posted by: Mrs. Davis 2005-03-06 7:23:35 PM |
| #27 ed, agree about appearance of the exit holes, but I think the resolution makes it tough to decide. Doe it amke sense to shoot an engine with anything less than a .50 cal? |
| Posted by: Mrs. Davis 2005-03-06 7:07:21 PM |
| #26 There is another possibility that is quite a stretch... Someone at AP wanted to alert people that the whole story is fishy. I know, as I said quite a stretch... |
| Posted by: Sobiesky 2005-03-06 6:55:17 PM |
| #25 Never Mind. |
| Posted by: Gilda Radner 2005-03-06 6:52:21 PM |
| #24 Kalle, seems that this is the car she was kidnapped from. Why AP used it for the story? Apparently, it really doesn't matter what car is used to them. Fake but accurate. |
| Posted by: Sobiesky 2005-03-06 6:44:23 PM |
| #23 Mrs. D, Could be, but to me, it looks a bit low to be a keyhole. It does seem to be at the right height to hit someone covering another in the back seat. I think they are entry holes. Exit holes would be irregular due to bullet tumbing/breakage after hitting the engine block. And no, I don't have any reason to believe the fatal shot came from inside the car or from a sniper. |
| Posted by: ed 2005-03-06 6:43:58 PM |
| #22 Could she have made the first shot? just before reaching the checkpoint? or could a jihadi sniper have shot them, knowing where they were going, when, and in what car? Are we sure the photo/video shows the correct car? |
| Posted by: Kalle (kafir forever) 2005-03-06 6:35:29 PM |
| #21 Okay, the autopsy correction: The bullet entered the parietal-occipital part of the skull (back of skull about 2-3" below the top) and exited a little above left ear. |
| Posted by: Sobiesky 2005-03-06 5:57:09 PM |
| #20 Where did that photo come from? |
| Posted by: x 2005-03-06 5:55:08 PM |
| #19 ..looks just like what the troops said...An engine shot, to stop the vehicle. It's self evident the car wasn't shot up. The photo bears this out. My opinion>>Troops showed great restraint. Minimal fire. |
| Posted by: Unegum Spoluger3586 2005-03-06 5:52:49 PM |
| #18 This pic is from AP. You would think that AP would show the most damaged portion of the car. Also its amazing that with 300-odd rounds only the 2 windows were shattered. All the other windows appear intact - of course the rear window might be shattered also. |
| Posted by: CrazyFool 2005-03-06 5:49:24 PM |
| #17 ed, the spot by the door handle is probably not a bullet hole rather a keyhole for the doorlock. Both the driver and driver's passenger window appear to be shattered. The holes we see on this side may be exit holes. We do not know how many holes are on the driver's side where the shattered windows are. |
| Posted by: Mrs. Davis 2005-03-06 5:44:35 PM |
| #16 Dishman, autopsy found a single shot into temple. So, yes, that thought crossed my mind. In fact, I would bet that if the shot was fired from inside the car, it was prior to the checkpoint incident and the perp slipped out in time. It would be interesting to compare passenger count from previous checkpoints. |
| Posted by: Sobiesky 2005-03-06 5:38:05 PM |
| #15 Anyone want to bet the killing shot was fired from inside the car? |
| Posted by: Dishman 2005-03-06 5:26:51 PM |
| #14 I see three rounds (two in engine, one by door handle) + broken window (round four?) and then the car rammed something. I don't think the white spot in the windshield is a bullet. No central hole and no large spider web around the impact. |
| Posted by: ed 2005-03-06 5:23:01 PM |
| #13 Um I only see one possible hole in the windscreen and it's intact. Must be magic is bullets that melt and leave no holes. I smell some commie BS here. |
| Posted by: Sock Puppet of Doom 2005-03-06 5:14:34 PM |
| #12 Here is the car: Must be some special invisible bullets making invisible holes, all 300 - 400 of'em, I guess. |
| Posted by: Sobiesky 2005-03-06 5:02:31 PM |
| #11 According to Italian ( |
| Posted by: Sobiesky 2005-03-06 3:36:34 PM |
| #10 Right on, Cyber Sarge, 2b, and SteveS.! I also found it interesting that-- #1: She works for a COMMUNIST newspaper. That juts about explains everything. #2: And they're rich Commies, evidently, to be able to pay $10 million for her sorry ass. #3: She certainly is quick to use the situation to bolster her own "credibility" and deflect attention from questions regarding what she (did, in fact) learn at the hands of the terrorists. And she gets all that by blaming US soldiers for doing their duty. Lucky her. #4: The liberal Italian press is even more outwardly agenda-oriented than our own beloved MSM, and they want to get rid of their prime minister, in order to further their Communist agenda. This is a big load of hype, designed to do just that. #5: Like all Communists tend to do, she is playing on cultural emotionality , when she suggests that a big, bad "plot" was enacted by the US to kill her. (Right--we consider her SO dangerous, cuz' she's SO important, don't ya know . . . ) #6: Guess she got a pretty great "pay off." She can tell fake stories impugning the US, and get some mileage out of that, she can capitalize on her negotiator's death and use it to further impugn the US, and she can be certain the funds she so generously provided the terrorists (or, Arab gangsters, as Classical Liberal pointed out) will be used to kill US forces and Iraqi freedom fighters. She must be really, really proud of herself. Is everyone else sick of the whiney, cowardly outlook of the Europeans? Sometimes it makes me want to just hand them over to their Islamic "brothers" for a couple of centuries. Then they'll be cryin home to mama! |
| Posted by: ex-lib 2005-03-06 2:37:40 PM |
| #9 If we wanted her dead, she would have been dead, all of them. |
| Posted by: Slomorong Choque7331 2005-03-06 2:22:08 PM |
| #8 That the Italians would cave in and pay ransom to known killers is disgusting. The Italian press will keep the ball rolling and ride the horse until it dies. |
| Posted by: Alaska Paul 2005-03-06 1:45:47 PM |
| #7 The Italians should be ashamed. Paying ransom to Arab gangsters sets us all back. |
| Posted by: Classical_Liberal 2005-03-06 12:53:21 PM |
| #6 Has anyone offered an explanation of how the evil, bloodthirsty US soldiers would know that this particular checkpoint-running vehicle contained peace-loving, italian, ex-hostage journalists and were therefore able to deliberately target them for death? |
| Posted by: SteveS 2005-03-06 12:38:47 PM |
| #5 besides I hope they do pursue this. I'm curious as to why the Italians felt they had to gun past an American checkpoint. Obviously there is a reason they didn't want to stop. What was it? |
| Posted by: 2b 2005-03-06 12:38:36 PM |
| #4 U.S. forces may have deliberately targeted her because Washington opposed Italyâs policy of dealing with kidnappers. In that case, why is she still alive to tell the tale? |
| Posted by: 2b 2005-03-06 12:35:13 PM |
| #3 So how did the US Soldiers at the checkpoint know to target that exact, slow moving, car when they did not let us in on the evacuation plan? Would be nice if we happen to have a video of the incident. |
| Posted by: CrazyFool 2005-03-06 12:33:01 PM |
| #2 Verification through repeated experiments. Take any area in Iraq which has experienced multiple car bombings in two or three days, load a car up with people, run it at night at any speed above 1st gear towards any American checkpoint which does not know the experiment is going on. Any volunteers to see if this would have happened just by accident? Or do rational people grasp that its really not a good thing to do? |
| Posted by: Cleamp Ebbereling9442 2005-03-06 11:40:02 AM |
| #1 Isn't it our stated policy to shoot indiscriminatly at vehoicles in Iraq? If the U.S. wanted to dispose of this Commie Bitch we would have staged an ambush on a deserted part of the highway and NOT at a checkpoint. The former would have far fewer questions and implications. Funny how only the U.S. and Lefty European press is touting her story. |
| Posted by: Cyber Sarge 2005-03-06 11:31:13 AM |