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| Europe |
| EU considers putting a spy in every car |
| 2005-02-26 |
| Black box data recorders could be installed in new cars as standard if a Europe-wide study gives them backing. Police forces across the continent are looking at whether the aircraft-style technology could improve road safety. Why, it'll do away with the need for speed cameras! Next step: satellite trackers, and simultaneous or daily sumbission of data to the EU's soon-to-appear Citizen Organisation Authority. The European Commission will use their research to decide if the devices could help in accident investigations. They are able to record information, including speed and the rate of braking in cars, in the vital seconds leading up to a crash. It is hoped accident investigators would be able to use the black box information to get a detailed picture of the circumstances surrounding a collision. The European Commission asked senior police officers across Europe to work on the study looking at the feasibility of installing the devices all new vehicles. If it is a success, legislation could be passed by ministers in Brussels. |
| Posted by:Bulldog |
| #21 Unlike the "good" days of the 70s, in which every system was separate and could be disabled separately, everything is integrated now. For example, to plain disable the speed recording means your automatic transmission (if you have one) won't upshift, since you're still doing 0 MPH. You can change some of the values by getting a new ROM with the values replaced, but the company doesn't publish the values (drivetrain computers are not open-source), so it's whatever the hackers can find. Since this is all undocumented, interactions and limits are unknown, except by trial and error. Similarly, you can't really disable the black box, unless you are willing to do without airbags and seatbelt locking, and maybe stability control? Of course, some car makers do not have this stuff installed, so you have a choice, but any car I would consider driving has all the data recorders. I know one insurance company is offering a discount to drivers who let them add a monitoring box to see if they exceed the speed limit. Of course, since it's a private company, you can simply choose not to do business with them. Actually, I really don't mind the black box for accident investigation, but we know it won't stop there. Allowing the government to read the contents annually (or whatever) without a warrant would be way over the line. |
| Posted by: jackal 2005-02-26 10:34:37 PM |
| #20 A year or two ago, "Car and Driver" had an article on how Volvo and MB use this to determine the details of an accident. Add to this their experts, who can tell if you were awake or asleep (the bruises left by seat belts is one clue), and it's an episode of "CSI"! There are only one or two countires that allow the info to be used for law siuts or insurance settlements. |
| Posted by: OldeForce 2005-02-26 6:41:36 PM |
| #19 It does see as though this is a case of the EU belatedly waking up to the potential of Big Brother technology car manufacturers elsewhere have been developing and using for a while. This is apparently true: "When AutoWeek conducted handling tests on a mundane Chevy Malibu Maxx hatchback earlier this year, the recorder automatically alerted GM OnStar officials, who called the car to make sure the driver was OK after a particularly severe cornering maneuver." AutoWeek's own report here. Incredible. |
| Posted by: Bulldog 2005-02-26 5:39:39 PM |
| #18 and an asterisk by his name..hey! Asterisk? doesn't that sound like someone's name? Gotta go - bye |
| Posted by: Frank G 2005-02-26 4:45:06 PM |
| #17 Sorry, I thougt this was the steroids thread. But you gotta admit Barry Bonds got a fat freaky face. |
| Posted by: Shipman 2005-02-26 4:43:11 PM |
| #16 ff |
| Posted by: Shipman 2005-02-26 4:41:29 PM |
| #15 Lent...dammit |
| Posted by: Frank G 2005-02-26 4:39:31 PM |
| #14 Bulldog> There's a difference between that and voluntary adoption of the technology by American consumers Judging from this thread, it certainly feels as if American consumers are voluntarily adopting this technology. LOL! |
| Posted by: Aris Katsaris 2005-02-26 4:31:56 PM |
| #13 Mrs. Davis - I'm not sure, I'd have to run it by them. I'd think most circuits could be bypassed but I don't know much about modern car electronics. They can, however, disable the governor in my Intrepid (top speed's limited to 107 MPH), but I think that's a device that will prevent me from doing three or four barrel rolls down I-93. |
| Posted by: Raj 2005-02-26 4:13:24 PM |
| #12 Not at all, Aris. The EU is debating whether it should make such technology compulsory (and will no doubt make incorporation of new developments in the technology mandatory in turn, such as downloadablity or live transmission of the data recorded, and eventually satellite tracking of private vehicles). There's a difference between that and voluntary adoption of the technology by American consumers - which happens without state involvement. I'm surprised you can't see the difference. Maybe I'm not. |
| Posted by: Bulldog 2005-02-26 3:03:46 PM |
| #11 You really want older cars without these devices. Until, of course, the government tries to outlaw the use of older vehicles. (IMO, CA is already doing this via its "Smog Check II" program) |
| Posted by: Bomb-a-rama 2005-02-26 2:44:16 PM |
| #10 Raj, They aren't interconnected to the ignition system? |
| Posted by: Mrs. Davis 2005-02-26 2:09:55 PM |
| #9 You people are embarrassing Bulldog's europhobia, when you are telling him that the measure he describes as Big-Brother-come-to-life, is already in wide execution in USA. |
| Posted by: Aris Katsaris 2005-02-26 2:00:32 PM |
| #8 You really want older cars without these devices. Just get your mechanic to |
| Posted by: Raj 2005-02-26 1:04:03 PM |
| #7 The EPA even wants the ability to shut your car off when it starts polluting and vector a police car to you. Cite? |
| Posted by: Robert Crawford 2005-02-26 12:27:17 PM |
| #6 Is there an aftermarket of p[roducts to defeat or circumvent these devices or is that illegal? |
| Posted by: Mrs. Davis 2005-02-26 11:44:40 AM |
| #5 Its worse. I read the specs of the next version.. The EPA even wants the ability to shut your car off when it starts polluting and vector a police car to you. GPS is part of it. Also, constant reporting of speed over posted speed. You really want older cars without these devices. They are like the one that rats you out through the plug under your dash but are 2 way wireless. |
| Posted by: 3dc 2005-02-26 11:42:58 AM |
| #4 jackal's right, and the tech is evolving to record you avg speeds and info which could eventually be used to, say, raise your insurance rates... |
| Posted by: Frank G 2005-02-26 10:53:12 AM |
| #3 The neat part about bureaucracies with no external controls is that, as they devolve into minutiae, their authority also diminishes. One regulation that almost everybody obeys is better than one billion that nobody has ever heard of, and are enforced randomly and vindictively. |
| Posted by: Anonymoose 2005-02-26 10:06:27 AM |
| #2 Half the cars already sold in the US (including My 300C) already have this. Daimler/Chrysler promises to only use the data to "make safer cars" or to "defend ourselves in a lawsuit." So far, governments can only get these data with subpoena. |
| Posted by: jackal 2005-02-26 10:01:02 AM |
| #1 EU government: Too many bureaucrats-- Not enough real work. |
| Posted by: GK 2005-02-26 9:52:02 AM |