| Submit your comments on this article |
| Britain |
| UK terror plans face tough fight |
| 2005-02-03 |
| Controversial government plans to keep terror suspects under house arrest rather than in jail could falter in parliament and fail to become law. The Conservatives declared on Wednesday they would oppose the new scheme, hastily drawn up after the highest court ruled that imprisoning foreign suspects without trial broke human rights law. With the Liberal Democrats also against, and many in the Labour party uneasy, the legislative battle could be bloody. "Internment without trial creates martyrs. It can be a very effective recruiting sergeant," Conservative leader Michael Howard told a news conference on Wednesday. "The government believes in house arrest. I do not. If people are dangerous terrorists they should be in prison not at home. But their innocence or guilt must be determined by a court of law, not by the Home Secretary." Prime Minister Tony Blair's huge majority should ensure he wins the day in the elected House of Commons but a tight vote will give Lords in the upper chamber a green light to mount their own challenge -- altering, delaying or even sinking the legislation. Home Secretary Charles Clarke bowed last week to the Law Lords' December ruling, replacing jail with sweeping powers to impose house arrest on terrorism suspects regardless of nationality. Civil liberties campaigners said the new measures could prove even more draconian than the old ones. "We are going to oppose those and try and defeat those in the Commons and Lords," Liberal Democrat home affairs spokesman Mark Oaten told BBC Radio. "You cannot have a situation where the Home Secretary is able to impose house detention now on UK nationals as well as foreign nationals." Clarke said 11 foreign terrorism suspects held under the old powers, some for as long as three years, would remain jailed until the new measures were in place. |
| Posted by:Dan Darling |
| #12 Hey, it seems that the Brits are letting an opportunity to make two problems each other slip through their fingers. On one hand, as detailed above, their "liberal" judiciary won't let their gov do any thing meaningfull about jihadists. On the other hand, as detailed in another article here: IRA Reneges on Commitment to Disarm---principaly because the Provo membership doesn't have any non-violent marketable skills... |
| Posted by: gromgorru 2005-02-03 12:51:17 PM |
| #11 [Michael] Howard doesn't get it. At all. When will the Tories grab a clue(tm)? His comments about a 'recruiting sergeant' are stupid. But at least the Tories and the Lib Dems are effectively opposing Labour's compromise solution. House arrest is not only extremely expensive, it ties down personnel who would be much better spent doing other things, elsewhere. It also adds to the impression that the UK Gevernment doesn't take dealing with suspects seriously. There does seem to be an overhaul of the system needed, but IMO the answer should be more, faster, repatriations and more power to the authorities to imprison with 'secret' evidence, and on the basis of evidence which at the moment isn't allowed (e.g. phone tapping). |
| Posted by: Bulldog 2005-02-03 11:41:24 AM |
| #10 LOL Phil_b stealing that 'en. |
| Posted by: Shipman 2005-02-03 11:10:22 AM |
| #9 [Michael] Howard doesn't get it. At all. When will the Tories grab a clue(tm)? |
| Posted by: someone 2005-02-03 10:44:40 AM |
| #8 'Fog in the Channel, Continent isolated' ;-) |
| Posted by: phil_b 2005-02-03 6:04:25 AM |
| #7 Madrid's close, but it's still 'overseas', phil ;) |
| Posted by: Bulldog 2005-02-03 5:58:33 AM |
| #6 Bulldog, Howard, I know you genuinely believe what you say, but the current European example on offer is Madrid (and I speak as a Brit who long ago left those dismal (literally) shores for sunnier climes) |
| Posted by: phil_b 2005-02-03 5:56:39 AM |
| #5 Dead right Bulldog - I remember reading the Socialist Worker (as a student!) and was amazed at its open sympathy for the IRA/ republican cause (*spits*). Phil - I don't think the chattering classes were concerned about the terror laws used against the IRA because innocent people were being killed. As soon as the Islamofascists get lucky here I don't think the chattering classes will give a shit about the laws used to combat the new threat either. It's just a damn shame that it takes bloodshed to shake the touchy-feely mob out of their woolly headed liberalism. |
| Posted by: Howard UK 2005-02-03 5:16:16 AM |
| #4 I think the main difference is that since Islamist violence has for the most part been contained, it is regarded as more of a hypothetical threat than a real one. Once ordinary Brits start to die on British streets at the hands of Islamic terrorists, public and even the chattering classes' attitudes will rapidly change, possibly overnight. That's what the IRA did, and that's why few people worried about how heavy handed the authorities' response was. But it's interesting to note that many prominent left-wing politicians (extreme examples being Ken Livingstone and George Galloway) are sympathetic towards both the left-wing IRA and Islamofascism, and the Left in general has always been more sympathetic towards Irish causes than the Right, in the UK. |
| Posted by: Bulldog 2005-02-03 4:49:29 AM |
| #3 Phil, not a mystery. Left, especially the far left, is totalitarian. They appreciate similar mindset. They also live in illusion that they would be able to manipulate islamonazis later in the game, same as Stalin thought vis-a-vis nazis. |
| Posted by: Sobiesky 2005-02-03 4:02:38 AM |
| #2 The irony is that the UK for quite a number of years had effective anti-terrorism laws that the chattering class was relatively unconcerned about becuase they were directed against the Irish. The mystery is why muslims evoke the sympathies of the Left while the Irish do not. |
| Posted by: phil_b 2005-02-03 2:18:35 AM |
| #1 As long as the "Law Enforcement" approach to terrorism prevails, the citizens are at great risk. I would wager that no police force in the West is sufficiently empowered, as the laws are full of assumptions that everyone is more or less civilized, to consistently prevent crime, especially cell-based subversives. So far, it seems the UK has staved off successful attacks through truly extraordinary effort and amazing luck. The traditional job of the Police is to clean up the mess and figure things out - after the fact. How long can they last before one slips through? When the asshats pull off a major event in the UK, the politicians (who aren't among the insane SocioFascistIslamoBats™) will have to address the issues and create something similar to the Patriot Act to enable more effective domestic security. It's not a question of "if", but "when". |
| Posted by: .com 2005-02-03 2:05:58 AM |