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| Iraq-Jordan |
| US Marine claims unit killed Iraqi civilians |
| 2004-12-08 |
| A former US Marine said his unit killed more than 30 innocent Iraqi civilians in just two days, in graphic testimony to a Canadian tribunal probing an asylum claim by a US Army deserter. Former Marine Sergeant Jimmy Massey appeared as a witness to bolster claims by fugitive paratrooper Jeremy Hinzman that he walked out on the 82nd Airborne Division to avoid being ordered to commit war crimes in Iraq. Mr Hinzman, 26, claims he would face persecution if sent home to the United States, in a politically charged case which could set a precedent for at least two other US deserters seeking asylum in Canada. Mr Massey told Canada's Immigration and Refugee Board (IRB) that men under his command in the 3rd battalion, 7th Marines, killed "30 plus" civilians within 48 hours while on checkpoint duty in Baghdad. "I do know that we killed innocent civilians," Mr Massey told the tribunal, relating the chaotic days after the US-led invasion of Iraq in March 2003. Mr Massey said that in some incidents, Iraqi civilians were killed by between 200 and 500 rounds pumped into four separate cars which each failed to respond to a single warning shot and respond to hand signals at a Baghdad checkpoint. At the time, US soldiers feared suicide bombers would try to ram checkpoints, he said. Searches found no weapons in the vehicles or evidence that those killed were anything but innocent civilians, he said. He also said Marines killed four unarmed demonstrators, and more Iraqis the next day during another spell of checkpoint duty in the occupied Iraqi capital. "I was never clear on who was the enemy and who was not," said Mr Massey. "When you don't know who the enemy is, what are you doing there?" asked the former Marine, later honourably discharged from the service with severe depression and post traumatic stress disorder. |
| Posted by:God Save The WOrld |
| #18 This is truly out of the Anti-War play book and how far down the road will be an Oliver Stone docu-fantasy ala Born on the Fourth of July. For those of you that missed it: In BOTFOJ,a teenager (played by Tom Cruise) Kovic joins the Marines, and is sent to Vietnam where he is permanently crippled. Kovic is sent back home and, at first, pretends that everything is all right – but it isn't. He's soon swearing at his parents, breaking down in tears, yelling about the horrific images he witnessed in Vietnam, cursing America – all this leading to his own self-destruction. Kovic's story is a true one, but it is also greatly exaggerated by Stone with his use of factual inaccuracies and manipulation of truth. Cruise's performance is one of his finest (and he was nominated for Best Actor in 1989), but both he and Stone try too hard – they take a good story and turn it into an overwhelming anti-war propaganda piece. The movie feels like it has no purpose – as if Stone is using it as an excuse to bombard us with more of his theories about warfare and how wrong it is. War happens. And we can't ignore it. A movie such as "Born on the Fourth of July" takes a stab at a specific event in America's past, shaming the veterans (Kovic included) through its ignorant and naïve outlook. Stone spends so much time trying to convince us why Vietnam was a blunder, and why it was a disgrace, and why it was a horrible decision, and why Republicans are idiots (check out the grand finale outside the Republican National Convention), and why Kovic's fight for "the truth" is honorable, that he forgets to honor the vets themselves. As Jarhead said, if his fellow Marines (hey, finally Massey can be accurately called an "ex-Marine", catch up to Massey, they may well help him reprise the Tom Cruise role...broken legs, to match his obvious break with the Corps and his former fellow Marines. |
| Posted by: Uleque Glavise4887 2004-12-08 10:47:23 PM |
| #17 Couple of useful idiots. Don't come back. If you do, you will be persecuted by some pissed off Marines. Pussies. |
| Posted by: Phiter Glolung1555 (aka Jarhead) 2004-12-08 5:34:25 PM |
| #16 This is old news. I remember each one of those incidents being splashed all over the "news" when they happened. They even showed film of one of the incidents when our guys shot up a vehicle that didn't stop at a checkpoint. Tragic, but perfectly understandable under the circumstances. To try to impute a whiff of war crimes to these incidents is just execrable. |
| Posted by: Xbalanke 2004-12-08 3:19:34 PM |
| #15 Pathetic twit. Declare him persona non grata and don't ever let him back in this country. |
| Posted by: RWV 2004-12-08 2:52:41 PM |
| #14 failed to find a weapon? Cars can be weapons... forest, for the trees. |
| Posted by: Dishman 2004-12-08 2:42:19 PM |
| #13 Whats that song... You dont put on superman's cape... You don't spit into the wind... You don't pull the mask of the ole lone ranger... [You dont drive fast toward a MARINE checkpoint...] And you dont mess around with jim... |
| Posted by: CrazyFool 2004-12-08 12:45:00 PM |
| #12 Marine Corps spokesman Maj. Douglas Powell at the Pentagon said Massey's charges had been investigated and were unproved. Massey is a former Marine recruiter who served in Iraq as the staff sergeant for a platoon that ranged from 25 to 50 men. He said his men, fearing suicide bombers, poured massive firepower into cars that did not stop as they approached the roadblocks. In each instance, he said, none of the cars was found to have contained explosives or arms. Tough for them, but they should have stopped. |
| Posted by: Steve 2004-12-08 11:51:44 AM |
| #11 Is he planning to run for President in 30 years? |
| Posted by: bw 2004-12-08 11:45:01 AM |
| #10 So, no self-serving interest in lying there, huh? |
| Posted by: mojo 2004-12-08 11:15:26 AM |
| #9 Any bets his asylum is rejected ? |
| Posted by: crazyhorse 2004-12-08 8:50:09 AM |
| #8 Yeah, by the article's own reporting, this Marine is suffering from PTSD and severe depression. The PTSD means he might be hallucinatory, and the severe depression means that he has a problem with magnifying and dwelling upon negative stimuli and warped recollection of past negative stimuli. The combination ought to render him incompetent to offer testimony in any well-run court. GSTW, FOAD. |
| Posted by: Mitch H. 2004-12-08 8:15:43 AM |
| #7 US Army deserter say no more. |
| Posted by: 2b 2004-12-08 7:23:57 AM |
| #6 It's good that war is so terrible --- otherwise we'd learn to love it. |
| Posted by: gromgorru 2004-12-08 7:06:30 AM |
| #5 Ed, our upstanding Canusckistaners can outlaw anything, but the question is if it is relevant any. Anyway, I doubt that IRB would be inclined to involve somme fuzzy feelings in regards to the claimant and buy that crap. I mean, we don't have much of an army and this would set a bad precedent (not sure where canuck soldiers would claim asylum, North Korea?), it was a bit different with conscripts during Vietnam war, but in this case it's someone who signed up. |
| Posted by: Sobiesky 2004-12-08 5:46:05 AM |
| #4 Could it be that the deliberate use of suicide carbombs as a tactic of war caused US forces to drop the Officer Friendly attitude to any vehicles that didn't stop at checkpoints? Our tsk-tsk loving neighbors to the north don't seem to realize that carbombs are considered outside the "rules of war". Maybe the upstanding Canuckistaners will outlaw carbombs so they will never be used again. |
| Posted by: ed 2004-12-08 4:00:32 AM |
| #3 Winter Soldier II. |
| Posted by: .com 2004-12-08 1:55:16 AM |
| #2 "in graphic testimony to a Canadian tribunal probing an asylum claim by a US Army deserter." The DNC couldn't have written a better script. I'm sure if the civilians had reacted to 1) a warning shot and 2) hand and arm signals these civilians would NOT have been shot. It's called "Rules of Engagement" and the "deserter" should have studied them a little more. The soldiers were well within their rights and I would have made the same call. Come back and talk to me when we start shooting people at random without warning for no reason. |
| Posted by: 98zulu 2004-12-08 1:52:48 AM |
| #1 "four separate cars which each failed to respond to a single warning shot and respond to hand signals"... "no weapons in the vehicles or evidence that those killed were anything but innocent civilians" It' s called a war. If you are that stupid that you do not respond to clear signals, then you must be presumed that you have hostile intent. It is as simple as that. "I was never clear on who was the enemy and who was not" Yea, they seem to look alike and the enemy does not have "enemy" note written by sharpie on the forehead. It is kinda on purpose. This is such a bunch of crap that iritates me to no end. |
| Posted by: Sobiesky 2004-12-08 1:02:05 AM |