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| Europe | ||||
| EU Seeks Russian Explanation for School Siege Toll | ||||
| 2004-09-03 | ||||
The European Union asked Russia to explain the bloody end to the siege of a school by Chechen gunmen on Friday with huge loss of life.
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| Posted by:Destro |
| #39 Oh, Aris, nice job you Greeks did on the Olympics security. Despite the media break ins there were no attacks as so many predicted (myself included). That's something to be pretty damn happy about since the Olympics was the biggest damn target in the world for a while there. |
| Posted by: RJSchwarz 2004-09-05 10:25:59 AM |
| #38 Aris - I don't see any logic in your rather strange distinction between what you call "ruthlessness" and what you call democracy, as if democracies can never act ruthlessly in defense of their interests. Our NATO alliance, you may recall, included a fascist regime in Spain and an authoritarian socialist regime in Portugal. In 1946 we sought out Nazis to help us infiltrate and contain the Soviets. We armed the mujahiddin when it served our interests to do so and we should help Russia now. In ten years' time, the picture may look a lot different, but our concern must be to destroy AQ and contain a nuclear Iran. Those objectives trump all others, because as soon as Iran gets nukes, AQ will be setting off dirty bombs in Manhattan and on containers in the ports of LA and Oakland and Houston and a dozen other places. As to your straw man: I never defined the glue of an alliance as "mere ruthlessness"-- those are your words. Alliances are formed of cold, hard interests. Hence France, a nation that shares many "common ideals" with us and that is converging rapidly with the US in the economic and social spheres, nonetheless perceives its interests in the middle east to be in direct conflict with ours and therefore refuses to act as an ally. In fact, aside from supporting Lebanese democracy with us, they are severely undermining every middle eastern policy we have. Very clearly, as regards the hot war against Al Qaeda and the cold war against Iran, we have what Russia needs and vice-versa. Is Putin a thug? Probably. Is Chirac a corrupt old thief who at this very moment is telling every arab who will listen that France sides with the jihadists in Iraq against Allawi and the US? Certainly. You're living in the wrong century. France matters less to us today than Russia or India does. At a minimum I think you need to expand a bit your definition of what constitutes a useful ally. |
| Posted by: lex 2004-09-04 1:33:14 AM |
| #37 Aris, you make a very good point. It doesn't make sense for Russia to fight IslamoFacists at home in Chechnya, then arm them with nukes and other weaponry in Iran, Iraq under Saddam and maybe Saudi Arabia. Putin needs to get clear on this. I know he and President Bush have a pretty good relationship and I'm sure that Bush offered him help today. Both men need to draw the Chechen conflict as a hotbed of Islamist murder and a new battlefield in the global war and stop calling it an internal Russian "human rights" problem. The US also needs to change sides in Kosovo as that as is also another hotspot in the war and we're now on the wrong side! |
| Posted by: GreatestJeneration 2004-09-04 1:17:30 AM |
| #36 Aris: I don't know whether the Russians are really ruthless or simply wading in a well-known river in Egypt, if you know what I mean. I think supplying Iran with those sorts of technologies will ultimately be bad for them. Barb: I'm reminded of Lois McMaster Bujold's line: "They think they're the wave of the future, but it's only sludge flowing downhill." |
| Posted by: Phil Fraering 2004-09-04 1:10:38 AM |
#35 #1 Zhang Fei:They really do think they're hot shit, don't they?They're half right.... |
| Posted by: Barbara Skolaut 2004-09-04 12:29:25 AM |
| #34 Your definition of "natural ally" is different to mine, lex -- kinda like saying that the Soviet Union was a more natural ally than the UK during WW2, because Soviet Union was willing to sacrifice millions and millions of its own people to kill the Germans while UK valued the lives of its civilians more, and hesitated a long time before committing to the war. I, on the other hand, prefer to use common ideals in order to name "natural allies". Mere ruthlessness doesn't create "natural allies". The same ruthlessness you see Russia using in Chechenya (Putin don't care who gets killed, innocent and guilty alike) is that same ruthlessness that made Russia give Iran nuclear technology (Putin don't care if Tel Aviv gets nuked). Rethink your "natural allies" position. At best the Russians are an ally of need, same as Stalin in WW2 who first made his deals with the Nazis and then had to fight against them. At worst they're on the enemy side and likely to remain there. It is still them that help out Iran with the nuclear technology, it's still them from what I hear that provided all those anti-GPS (or whatever you call them) devices to Iraq -- that doesn't change. |
| Posted by: Aris Katsaris 2004-09-04 12:19:31 AM |
| #33 What will it take for Americans to realize that France is not an ally and that Russia should be an ally? It seems like a message from on high: during the same week, two terrorist outrages, one against French, the other against Russian nationals. The French dispatch diplomats to tell every muslim thug from Algiers to Teheran that France opposes America, France is on the same side as the brave resistance fighters in Iraq. The Russians do not attempt to curry favor with the terrorists or their bedfellows, instead sending Spetsnaz to kill the terrorists and save as many of their children as possible while doing so. Which of these nations is a natural ally of the US in the war against the jihadists? WHY THE F*** CAN'T THIS NATION'S FOREIGN POLICY ELITES RECOGNIZE THAT FRANCE IS NOT ON OUR SIDE IN THE MIDDLE EAST? Transfer 500 or more of the Paris Embassy staff to New Delhi, Moscow and Ankara immediately. End this nonsense. Focus on the nations that can truly help us crush AQ and contain a nuclear Iran. |
| Posted by: lex 2004-09-04 12:03:09 AM |
| #32 Anonymoose, I hope Putin goes for the two word answer with the 2nd being "off." |
| Posted by: Super Hose 2004-09-03 11:44:00 PM |
| #31 I hope the Russians respond to the EU with the very best bureaucratic blather that money can buy, expressly thanking them for their condolences and offers of support against the forces of evil, providing them absolutely no details and phrased in such a way that the Euromandarins have to spend weeks just figuring out what the heck they just said. Not just a brush-off, but showing such withering contempt that they don't even try to be comprehensible. "Please pass the sweet and sour shrimp." |
| Posted by: Anonymoose 2004-09-03 11:41:04 PM |
| #30 I think that Bot is trying to be the first to call for an independent commission. He will follow-up by demanding that Putin apologize to the families of the victims for his lack of omniscience and presentience. |
| Posted by: Super Hose 2004-09-03 9:54:38 PM |
| #29 Mercutio - interesting! |
| Posted by: B 2004-09-03 9:24:49 PM |
| #28 I notice that this article, like so many others that make me puke, came from Rooters. So I got curious and looked up Rooter's self-description on their website. The first thing they have to say under "Strategy" is: "Our goal is to transform Reuters into a focused information company that exploits its core skills, scale and brand to deliver the right products at the right price with great service." The only thing not spelled out about their prostitution is who's picking up the tab, though I guess that is self-evident. Later in the same section, they blame it on failing financial markets..... I knew they must have a good reason...... |
| Posted by: Mercutio 2004-09-03 8:36:53 PM |
| #27 Where does the EU/Bot get off asking the Russians how they dealt w/terrorists w/in their own borders? Bot's tone comes off badly to me on this. I believe how Russia handles terrorists in their own country is their business. I definitely mourn their dead but have been in the military long enough to know that you don't question the commander on the scene when your miles back in the rear. I think Putin needs to tell the EU to GFT. |
| Posted by: Jarhead 2004-09-03 8:28:33 PM |
| #26 (EU)Bot is a Dutch? I thought he is a Belgian--that would explain it. Actually, there seems to be an e(u)pidemy of a mental disorder that is hard to comprehend. Innane fooktard. I am so glad I left that sorry place (Europe) 20 years ago! I think I would go berserk if I stayed. |
| Posted by: Zarathustra 2004-09-03 8:19:48 PM |
| #25 "Excuse, please. Am having announcement. (ahem) EMERGENCY! Everybody to get from Fulda Gap. Thanking you." |
| Posted by: mojo 2004-09-03 8:18:47 PM |
| #24 Angie, don't worry, tell your jokes |
| Posted by: True German Ally 2004-09-03 8:09:49 PM |
#23 OMG EUrocrates from Brussels are slowly eroding British power even within our own country , making everyone in Europe a 'soft target' and now some plonker says this : >>Dutch Foreign Minister Bernard Bot said all countries should work together to prevent such tragedies Where are they on this war with these maniacs .. I'll tell ya ... aiding and abetting the true criminals , not helping anyone else with their retarded embarrassing statements . and running like cowardly dogs at the first sniff of trouble .. and if this is them working together to prevent such tragedies then I am a hat stand I am sick and tired of the Uk being the backbone of Europe whilst most other nations act like a weak bladder I hope, truely hope that Britain can use what little power we have left in Europe to shaft all these butt monkeys so hard I actually see them squirm for a change instead of look smug .. Arrogant fuckheads ...... oohh boy am i angry |
| Posted by: MacNails 2004-09-03 8:03:31 PM |
| #22 ...the Russian Army was being dispatched westerward on a "Fact Finding" mission... Well, I was going to write this amusing scene wherein Willy and Joe explain to "Hans" that they ain't seen no Russkies, there ain't been Russkies around these here parts for years, and they ain't trained to identify Russkies no more anyways, all the while mumbling "Hey, Ivan", and "How's it goin', Yuri?" asides, but TGA went and ruined it: *Sigh* Commie tyranny jokes aren't any fun with you around. Now that you're gone and spoiled everything, you wanna unpack that one for us? |
| Posted by: Angie Schultz 2004-09-03 8:02:57 PM |
| #21 Bedal school terror...coming soon to a public school in some clueless EU country soon. brought to you by: murdering allan-worshipers of the middle east. |
| Posted by: anymouse 2004-09-03 7:57:03 PM |
| #20 How many votes does it take to kick certain countries _out_ of NATO? |
| Posted by: Phil Fraering 2004-09-03 7:47:07 PM |
| #19 Have the crows and vultures started to have dinner yet? See the article. They're pecking away. |
| Posted by: Bulldog 2004-09-03 7:26:45 PM |
| #18 It looks like we and the Russians have more in common as to attitude than the folks in-between. As to the guy that the Breslan folks gave a necktie to. Have the crows and vultures started to have dinner yet? |
| Posted by: BigEd 2004-09-03 7:24:31 PM |
| #17 While they're at it maybe the EU should ask the wounded children why they didn't duck faster. Numerous expletives deleted. |
| Posted by: Matt 2004-09-03 7:21:34 PM |
| #16 RJ Schwartz-Looks like (a) is operative. 98zulu understands it. |
| Posted by: BigEd 2004-09-03 7:20:41 PM |
| #15 From Jack Straw's comments, it clearly was (a). |
| Posted by: Dave D. 2004-09-03 7:20:28 PM |
| #14 This article can be read two ways. Either (a) the EU is filled with busy-body know it alls who are acting all high and mighty over the Russians in their time of crisis or (b) the EU really wants to know what happened so they can avoid that sort of thing when a school in Europe is invaded by Islamofascists. |
| Posted by: RJ Schwarz 2004-09-03 7:16:33 PM |
| #13 Russia and America ask the EU to explain how they can see anything with their heads shoved so far up their asses. These idiots still think that if they shut their eyes tight enough, what they can't see, can't hurt them. |
| Posted by: 98zulu 2004-09-03 7:16:20 PM |
| #12 I feel for you Bulldog. But we have Fox News to watch where news is more on a level playing field. I can even tell you the last time I watched broadcast news (other than local stations). I am sure CNN, MSNBC, etc. are towing the same line. Time to kicks some islamists butt in Europe. I feel for the families and I hope they get swift justice. |
| Posted by: Cyber Sarge 2004-09-03 7:15:30 PM |
| #11 *Sigh* |
| Posted by: True German Ally 2004-09-03 7:13:55 PM |
| #10 Bush gets it. US President George Bush called the siege âanother grim reminder of the length to which terrorists will go to threaten this civilised worldâ. âWe mourn the innocent lives that have been lost,â Bush said. âwe stand with the people of Russia, we send them our prayers for this terrible situation.â |
| Posted by: Parabellum 2004-09-03 7:12:16 PM |
| #9 I'm losing it here - I cant believe the fucking shit coming from this piece of shit. I may regret my lanuguage in the morning, but not now - not now. |
| Posted by: Tony (UK) 2004-09-03 7:08:46 PM |
| #8 LotR : . .the Russian Army was being dispatched westerward on a "Fact Finding" mission. . . First stop : The Amsterdam offices of Dutch Foreign Minister Bernard Bot. |
| Posted by: BigEd 2004-09-03 7:06:19 PM |
| #7 Watching the news this evening, I sat open-mouthed as blame was heaped on the Russians for the carnage. "How did they let this happen" etc. UNBE-FUCKIN'-LIEVABLE! How perspective-inverted do you have to be to overlook the fact that the terrorists were responsible for what happened? |
| Posted by: Bulldog 2004-09-03 7:05:36 PM |
| #6 Looks like Vlad's little tete-a-tete with Jacques and Gerd was useful in building better relations among the powers of Europe. This will also help the Russians reach a decision about joining the EU. NATO should offer a commendation to the Ruskies, even if it is unwarranted. |
| Posted by: Mrs. Davis 2004-09-03 7:04:53 PM |
| #5 "I must assume they did their utmost to find a negotiated deal with the hostage takers and that has failed and they saw no other way out but to take these measures," he said. So the first thing this guy assumes is that a deal is negotiated with the terrorists. Appeasement worked great in Spain and the Phillipines. We will see how France does with appeasement. In a statement in the name of the presidency of the 25-nation EU, Dutch Foreign Minister Bernard Bot said all countries should work together to prevent such tragedies. More platitudes. Work together. The history of the EU, except for their hard working police, intelligence, and counterterrorism agencies, speaks otherwise. Bot and Co are making my blood boil. I think that I will squeeze some lemons and make lemonaid. These statements of the EU really piss me off!!!! |
| Posted by: Alaska Paul 2004-09-03 7:03:46 PM |
| #4 Ya know, I would find it HIGH-LARIOUS if the Russians announced that they have evidence pointing toward Islamic groups in Western Europe giving support to the terrorists, and that the Russian Army was being dispatched westerward on a "Fact Finding" mission. |
| Posted by: Laurence of the Rats 2004-09-03 7:01:49 PM |
| #3 "But we also would like to know from the Russian authorities how this tragedy could have happened," he added. Well, the details are a little sketchy right now, Bernie, but I think - I think - this may have happened because a bunch of mooselimb fanatics (but I repeat myself) decided to attack a school and massacre children. Any other stupid fookin questions? |
| Posted by: BH 2004-09-03 6:55:16 PM |
| #2 How come some Eurodork spews blather, and the British guy seems rational? Do I even have to ask this question? |
| Posted by: BigEd 2004-09-03 6:51:22 PM |
| #1 The EUnuchs are nuts. This is the stupidest move they've made in a while. They really do think they're hot shit, don't they? |
| Posted by: Zhang Fei 2004-09-03 6:50:44 PM |