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| Europe |
| Five Swedish children abducted by Palestinian father |
| 2004-08-12 |
| A Palestinian man abducted his five Swedish children and fled to the Gaza Strip, where he has held them illegally for more than two months, his former wife and the Swedish Foreign Ministry said Wednesday. A relative of the father said the children, ages 6 to 16, will not be allowed to return to Sweden, because the Gaza family does not want them to live a Western life style and destroyed their Swedish passports. Swedish and Palestinian officials are trying to resolve the family drama, which pits Islamic custom against Western law. However, growing unrest and lawlessness in the West Bank and Gaza Strip raise questions about the ability of Palestinian authorities to take action. The children's mother, Elisabeth Krantz, said her ex-husband, Ismail Nowajah, a Gaza native, removed the children from their home in the southwestern Swedish town of Kungsbacka on June 4, under the pretext of taking them on a vacation to Cairo, Egypt. However, the next day Nowajah sent them by taxi to his sister's home in Gaza City, Krantz said. She said her ex-husband called her two days after leaving Sweden, and told her she would never see the children again. She said she's had limited contact with them and that they are being held against their will. |
| Posted by:TS(vice girl) |
| #20 So hows bizness genter? Offed any wheelies recently? |
| Posted by: Have Tongue Will Travel 2004-08-12 6:39:37 PM |
| #19 Gentle: In Islam the mother comes first. I bet if the woman comes first, a clitorectomy is the next thing she feels. Weak bastards |
| Posted by: Frank G 2004-08-12 6:39:06 PM |
| #18 Holy smokes. It's Gentle!!! Long time no read. Where've you been hiding? Its good to see you've come up for air. We almost gave up hope. Have your wounds healed? |
| Posted by: Zpaz 2004-08-12 6:31:24 PM |
| #17 Gentle, Islamic law states unambiguously that children born of a Muslim father are automtically Muslim and cannot be raised in any other religion. And Muslim women are forbidden to marry outside the religion under threat of honor killing. In divorce the mother only gets the children until they are a certain age but if the husband demands them, they are given to him since he remains in complete control of them including their finances. In the case that the Muslim father of some children dies, if the mother is of another religion she has no rights to them at all. Custody automotically goes to some Muslim relative. If they don't want her to see them, she can't. If a father converts to Islam from some other relgion, his children regardless of which religion they were raised in or for how long are legally converted to islam whether they consent or not if they are minors. They can be forced for their own "good" to observe Islam. Muslim women, who may be divorced at the drop of a hat and so lose her children, are under a unique oppression. Piss hubby off for any reason and he can just divorce in an instant take your kids and you can't say anything about it. You confuse big talk for reality. Cold hard reality is that in Islam, women are atcompletely at the mercy of men. They are entirely dependent on the good will of the men of their lives. If the men change their minds about her, she has nothing. No recourse at all. In contrast, Western society, without the impediment of religious law has been able to do the truly just thing. Since both parents regardless of sex or religion or any other circumstances are equally invested in the children or their marraige, then both have absolutely equal rights and all custody cases are decided on merit rather than some pre-determined calcified one-size fits all like it or not 6 centuries out of date dictums. No one automatically gets the children and no one has to fight 1400 years of rulings which automatically go against them. I sense that you are practically a muslim if you are not already. Heaven help you to see sense again. I think you really need to learn the difference between talking a good game and actually prducing a good game. Its the telling difference between our culture and that of Islam. When someone tries to tell you to pay no attention to that whatever is happening right in front of your nose and tries to convince you that some never realized ideal is "real", turn and run. He's trying to sell you a bill of goods. Results are what matters. A lack of a calcified religious code of laws combined with a passionate interest in justice and mercy has produced results, while the opposite, Islam, has produced horror which can't be aleviated because the law is sacred (dead) cow that can't be changed but clearly must be. Wherever it is seriously and devoutly applied it causes misery for everyone not a Muslim male. |
| Posted by: peggy 2004-08-12 3:50:57 PM |
| #16 Gentle, you left out the stipulations in Islam regarding child custody, the most important being that the mother only has custody until the children are of a certain age, the standard being six for boys and nine for girls. There are many more stipulations, regarding remarriage and competency based on religious affiliation, etc etc. |
| Posted by: TS(vice girl) 2004-08-12 14:02 |
| #15 Islam states that the children should stay with their mother. Explain that to the Saudis, who refuse to let children leave Saudi Arabia to be with their mothers. and unless the children are already muslims, I do not see what right the father has to force them into the religion against thier will. Except that Islam considers them BORN Muslim, and if they leave Islam, their lives are forfeit. In Islam the mother comes first. Unless she's |
| Posted by: Robert Crawford 2004-08-12 13:35 |
| #14 Baaa like a goat, baby! I SAID BAAA LIKE A GOAT!!!! *CRACK* |
| Posted by: 2% 2004-08-12 13:29 |
| #13 But he is different from the hundreds of Muslim men I have slept with. He let me take care of his every need and only took the whip to me when I needed it. You’ll see he not that same as the HUNDREDS of other Muslim Fathers that have kidnapped their children. Besides my children will have it much better growing up in a Arab society (especially the girls). I only with he would have asked me to accompany them to that garden spot called Gaza. If Ismail only calls I will come running! |
| Posted by: Elisabeth Krantz 2004-08-12 13:14 |
| #12 Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight Gentle. Please spare us the lectures on the wonders of the Religion Of Peace™. Noone's buyin' |
| Posted by: Rex Mundi 2004-08-12 13:05 |
| #11 No they are NOT encouraged to. It is only: allowed. Islam states that the children should stay with their mother. Especially the girls. That is what Islam has to say about it. and unless the children are already muslims, I do not see what right the father has to force them into the religion against thier will. I guess it's only fatherly love, but that still does not make it right. In Islam the mother comes first. |
| Posted by: Gentle 2004-08-12 12:42 |
| #10 Peggy, I hear ya and agree regarding raising and educating our daughters. As for my daughter marrying outside our faith, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it (and will take it based on the individual in question)...except when when it comes to Islam. But knowing my daughter and my family as a whole, I prolly have little to worry about in this regard. |
| Posted by: Rex Mundi 2004-08-12 12:42 |
| #9 rex, Actually, its not really that harsh if one starts when our daughters and sisters are young by simply telling them the truth about Islamic law and encouraging them to respect their own culture enough to search for a mate among men who will raise the children in her cultural/religious tradition instead of his. Teach her that her culture/religion is valuable enough to insist on the children being raised in it or at the least to have equal time and value in their upbringing. Tell her there isn't anything wrong with having enough self esteem to assert her own values and beliefs in the raising of her own children and that one tradition is not the same as all the others as long as it teaches that we should have morals. It can be done very gently indeed. .com, Its in the NT somewhere, in the Epistles. Paul, I believe recommends that Christian families not permit their daughters to marry outside of the faith. It is stated specifically that the reason is that if she does her children will raised in the faith of the father. Intermarriage is basically an agreement to participate in your own ethnic/religious tradition's cleansing. I think this is why Muslim men target/are attracted to vulnerable out of place Western women. I honestly think they are encouraged to and in fact I believe that I have heard several Muslim men claim that they are encouraged to marry outside the faith. It also doesn't hurt that they become citizens when they marry American women. |
| Posted by: peggy 2004-08-12 12:27 |
| #8 peggy - I don't know the passage to which you're referring, but if it clearly states that non-Muslims should not marry Muslims then it's because they've been doing precisely the same shit since before there was hair. That's some aged wisdom. |
| Posted by: .com 2004-08-12 12:14 |
| #7 Rex, I have one younger sister and I've have told her the same. Don't ever marry a Muslim or let your children marry them either. Actually its in the Bible. I never realized how wise the command was until I started hearing about all this kidnapping, honor killing stuff as well hearing about all the so-called "cupid" female converts to Islam. Nothing clouds the thinking quite like love. Having a loved one who is another religion leaves you blind to that religions dark side. "oh my husband is so wonderful, he couldn't do anything to hurt me or my kids" or "oh my husband is so good to me, maybe there is something to this Islam after all that made him so wonderful' etc. Inter-marraige, as the Jews before us and the Muslims after us also know, is a recipe for cultural and religious extinction. We need to get back to common sense, if you ask me. |
| Posted by: peggy 2004-08-12 12:07 |
| #6 And once again: Marry a Westerner...check Have lots of babies all paid for by the liberal nanny state...check Take the children and flee back to the hell-hole from which you sprang... check. I have one child - a daughter. Her life is hers to live except in one respect: she does not marry a muslim. Ever. Sound harsh? Tough. |
| Posted by: Rex Mundi 2004-08-12 11:40 |
| #5 And the Swedish Govt will do _____ to help her. |
| Posted by: .com 2004-08-12 10:51 |
| #4 "ummm, yeah honey, I promise that I'm just taking all the kids to Cairo for a um, visit, yeah that's right. I promise that I'm not up to anything on my honor as a Muslim." And she believed him???? Normally, I would have the greatest sympathy for someone in this terrible sort of situation, but if this woman loses her children she may have only herself to blame. How dumb could this chick possibly be????? Actually, my sympathy is with the children in this case with two parents like these, they hardly stand a chance. |
| Posted by: peggy 2004-08-12 10:48 |
| #3 or if your IQ >= 70 |
| Posted by: anymouse 2004-08-12 09:53 |
| #2 hint - don't marry a muslim if you can't take a punch |
| Posted by: Frank G 2004-08-12 09:04 |
| #1 She said Nowajah, who was unemployed for all but three years of 16 years in Sweden, has Swedish citizenship. Looks like you picked a real winner, hon. I feel bad for the kids, but you reap what you sow,lady. |
| Posted by: tu3031 2004-08-12 08:43 |