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| Syria-Lebanon-Iran |
| AEI: U.S. Policy Adrift on Rogue State - Iran |
| 2004-06-22 |
| -snip- The result is policy chaos. One year after President Bush labeled Iran part of the "Axis of Evil," Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage called Iran a "democracy." Current and former National Security Council officials engage not only with diplomats, but also with members of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps. A bipartisan group of senators and congressmen led by Sen. Arlen Specter, Pennsylvania Republican, has dined with Mohammad-Javad Zarif, Iran’s United Nations ambassador. In April 2004, Mr. Specter explained, "We need to establish a dialogue with Iran...We need to have a line of communication to stop Iran from developing nuclear weapons." Other Republicans agree, arguing that dialogue with Tehran will foster a move toward human rights and democracy. Unfortunately, engagement comes at a cost both to U.S. national security and to Iran’s internal reform. The Islamic Republic uses the space created by engagement to further its weapons program and demoralize democrats. The European Union has engaged with Iran for more than a decade, doubling bilateral trade. Iran’s hardliners have used their access to bolster Tehran’s weapons of mass destruction programs. The Islamic Republic has incorporated components purchased from Swiss, German, Italian and Spanish firms into its biological weapons program. In March 2000, the Islamic Republic contracted with the German company Salzgitter Anlagenbau to build a 1,450 kilogram-per-hour phosgene generator. When weaponized, phosgene causes fatal lung damage. Iran’s nuclear program has also benefited. Michael Eisenstadt, senior fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, wrote in his 1998 study, "Iranian Military Power: Capabilities and Intentions," that, in addition to overt Russian assistance, Iranian government front companies purchased centrifuges and calutrons from Switzerland and Germany. In March 2001, President Mohammad Khatami signed a $7 billion deal to buy weapons from Russia. A year later, Mr. Khatami boasted, "Today our army is one of the most powerful in the world...It has become self-sufficient, and is on the road to further development." Reform has withered as dialogue has legitimized the Islamic Republic. Since Mr. Khatami’s 1997 call for a "Dialogue of Civilizations," capital punishment has doubled, the Islamic Republic has shuttered 80 newspapers, banned private internet service providers, seized thousands of satellite dishes and staged the largest trial of dissidents since the Islamic Revolution. On April 13, 2004, Mr. Khatami formally withdrew two reform bills from Iran’s parliament, even as U.S. and British officials sat down with Iranian colleagues to discuss Iraq. Dialogue proponents argue that engagement encourages internal reformers, but their partners are often insincere. During his tenure as minister of culture, for example, Mr. Khatami himself banned more than 600 books and 90 publications. An August 2002 telephone survey (randomized by exchange) of 505 Tehran residents found that only 33 percent believed Mr. Khatami had delivered on his reformist promises. On May 9, 2004, a judge in the Western Iranian town of Hamadan suggested that the United Nations Human Rights Commission "should pray for God’s forgiveness for not issuing any resolution against Iran." Family members of imprisoned dissidents say that Iranian interrogators use published reports of U.S.-Iranian dialogue to deflate and demoralize political prisoners. Iranians are increasingly becoming convinced that reform cannot resolve fundamental problems in the Islamic Republic’s ideology. Many Iranians have concluded that elections are meaningless. Iranians visiting Iraq in the wake of the February parliamentary elections estimated voter turn-out to be no more than 10 percent in many districts. In 1953 and 1979, Washington supported an unpopular Iranian government against the will of the people. The United States should not make the same mistake three times. Moral clarity has its rewards. There is a direct correlation between President Bush’s condemnation of the Iranian regime and the frequency of pro-democracy demonstrations in Iran. Dialogue with Iran also comes at a tremendous cost in Iraq. Iranian intentions are belied by the appointment of Hassan Kazemi Qomi to be their charge d’affaires in Baghdad. Mr. Kazemi is not a diplomat, but rather a member of the Qods Force, an elite unit of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps dedicated to exporting the revolution. Asking Iranian assistance to quell Iraqi unrest is akin to asking an arsonist to extinguish a fire. Dialogue legitimizes Iranian activities that have led to the death of American servicemen. An April 2004 Italian military intelligence report submitted to the Italian parliament concluded that the Qods Force is subsidizing firebrand cleric Muqtada al-Sadr and Iraqi insurgents to the tune of approximately $70 million monthly. Arabic newspapers report that captured Iranian operatives in British custody have supported the Italian accusations as have Iranian journalists. Nevertheless, Bush administration National Security Council officials have recently engaged Iranian counterparts in Iraq. Iranian journalist Ardeshir Moaveni suggested discussions focused on trading Iranian assistance in ending the Shia uprising in exchange for mitigation of U.S. pressure on Iran’s nuclear program. -snip- |
| Posted by:Super Hose |
| #36 Nice try, .com, but you can do better than that. A lot better, one would think. Google: Results 1 - 5 of about 6 for synthetic aperture rantburg. (0.20 seconds) ... Though I saw Zenster disparage it here yesterday or today as, apparently, less reliable than published reports ... My words were hardly "disparaging." To wit: ------------------------- While Mossad's skills and penetration of regional activity are nothing to sneeze at, Israel does not possess anything remotely approaching those intelligence assets enjoyed by the United States. Such sensing capabilities as orbital synthetic aperture side scanning look-down radar (capable of deep penetration geological structure profiling) and our fabulous keyhole KH birds are lightyears beyond what Israel deploys at this time. For the nonce, we'll avoid speculating upon neutron emission detectors and other remote sensing technologies. We may well have significant evidence of Iranian nuclear arms progress that cannot be shared with Israel, if only to conceal the true extent of our ability in probing both Iranian and Israeli installations alike. This could well be what is preventing us from sharing such intelligence that might otherwise propel Israel towards more definitive action. ------------------------- You certainly know well enough how to use Google. You also have 0.20 seconds to assure the veracity of what you post. What I posted is true, and you know it. Additionally, it is ironic in the extreme that you should accuse me of "baiting" when it is you who have done exactly that. |
| Posted by: Zenster 2004-06-23 1:17:09 PM |
| #35 Nice try, .com, but you can do better than that. A lot better, one would think. Google: Results 1 - 5 of about 6 for synthetic aperture rantburg. (0.20 seconds) ... Though I saw Zenster disparage it here yesterday or today as, apparently, less reliable than published reports ... My words were hardly "disparaging." To wit: ------------------------- While Mossad's skills and penetration of regional activity are nothing to sneeze at, Israel does not possess anything remotely approaching those intelligence assets enjoyed by the United States. Such sensing capabilities as orbital synthetic aperture side scanning look-down radar (capable of deep penetration geological structure profiling) and our fabulous keyhole KH birds are lightyears beyond what Israel deploys at this time. For the nonce, we'll avoid speculating upon neutron emission detectors and other remote sensing technologies. We may well have significant evidence of Iranian nuclear arms progress that cannot be shared with Israel, if only to conceal the true extent of our ability in probing both Iranian and Israeli installations alike. This could well be what is preventing us from sharing such intelligence that might otherwise propel Israel towards more definitive action. ------------------------- You certainly know well enough how to use Google. You also have 0.20 seconds to assure the veracity of what you post. What I posted is true, and you know it. Additionally, it is ironic in the extreme that you should accuse me of "baiting" when it is you who have done exactly that. |
| Posted by: Zenster 2004-06-23 1:17:09 PM |
| #34 Nice try, .com, but you can do better than that. A lot better, one would think. Google: Results 1 - 5 of about 6 for synthetic aperture rantburg. (0.20 seconds) ... Though I saw Zenster disparage it here yesterday or today as, apparently, less reliable than published reports ... My words were hardly "disparaging." To wit: ------------------------- While Mossad's skills and penetration of regional activity are nothing to sneeze at, Israel does not possess anything remotely approaching those intelligence assets enjoyed by the United States. Such sensing capabilities as orbital synthetic aperture side scanning look-down radar (capable of deep penetration geological structure profiling) and our fabulous keyhole KH birds are lightyears beyond what Israel deploys at this time. For the nonce, we'll avoid speculating upon neutron emission detectors and other remote sensing technologies. We may well have significant evidence of Iranian nuclear arms progress that cannot be shared with Israel, if only to conceal the true extent of our ability in probing both Iranian and Israeli installations alike. This could well be what is preventing us from sharing such intelligence that might otherwise propel Israel towards more definitive action. ------------------------- You certainly know well enough how to use Google. You also have 0.20 seconds to assure the veracity of what you post. What I posted is true, and you know it. Additionally, it is ironic in the extreme that you should accuse me of "baiting" when it is you who have done exactly that. |
| Posted by: Zenster 2004-06-23 3:39:53 AM |
| #33 Nice try, .com, but you can do better than that. A lot better, one would think. Google: Results 1 - 5 of about 6 for synthetic aperture rantburg. (0.20 seconds) ... Though I saw Zenster disparage it here yesterday or today as, apparently, less reliable than published reports ... My words were hardly "disparaging." To wit: ------------------------- While Mossad's skills and penetration of regional activity are nothing to sneeze at, Israel does not possess anything remotely approaching those intelligence assets enjoyed by the United States. Such sensing capabilities as orbital synthetic aperture side scanning look-down radar (capable of deep penetration geological structure profiling) and our fabulous keyhole KH birds are lightyears beyond what Israel deploys at this time. For the nonce, we'll avoid speculating upon neutron emission detectors and other remote sensing technologies. We may well have significant evidence of Iranian nuclear arms progress that cannot be shared with Israel, if only to conceal the true extent of our ability in probing both Iranian and Israeli installations alike. This could well be what is preventing us from sharing such intelligence that might otherwise propel Israel towards more definitive action. ------------------------- You certainly know well enough how to use Google. You also have 0.20 seconds to assure the veracity of what you post. What I posted is true, and you know it. Additionally, it is ironic in the extreme that you should accuse me of "baiting" when it is you who have done exactly that. |
| Posted by: Zenster 2004-06-23 3:39:53 AM |
| #32 Nice try, .com, but you can do better than that. A lot better, one would think. Google: Results 1 - 5 of about 6 for synthetic aperture rantburg. (0.20 seconds) ... Though I saw Zenster disparage it here yesterday or today as, apparently, less reliable than published reports ... My words were hardly "disparaging." To wit: ------------------------- While Mossad's skills and penetration of regional activity are nothing to sneeze at, Israel does not possess anything remotely approaching those intelligence assets enjoyed by the United States. Such sensing capabilities as orbital synthetic aperture side scanning look-down radar (capable of deep penetration geological structure profiling) and our fabulous keyhole KH birds are lightyears beyond what Israel deploys at this time. For the nonce, we'll avoid speculating upon neutron emission detectors and other remote sensing technologies. We may well have significant evidence of Iranian nuclear arms progress that cannot be shared with Israel, if only to conceal the true extent of our ability in probing both Iranian and Israeli installations alike. This could well be what is preventing us from sharing such intelligence that might otherwise propel Israel towards more definitive action. ------------------------- You certainly know well enough how to use Google. You also have 0.20 seconds to assure the veracity of what you post. What I posted is true, and you know it. Additionally, it is ironic in the extreme that you should accuse me of "baiting" when it is you who have done exactly that. |
| Posted by: Zenster 2004-06-23 3:39:23 AM |
| #31 Nice try, .com, but you can do better than that. A lot better, one would think. Google: Results 1 - 5 of about 6 for synthetic aperture rantburg. (0.20 seconds) ... Though I saw Zenster disparage it here yesterday or today as, apparently, less reliable than published reports ... My words were hardly "disparaging." To wit: ------------------------- While Mossad's skills and penetration of regional activity are nothing to sneeze at, Israel does not possess anything remotely approaching those intelligence assets enjoyed by the United States. Such sensing capabilities as orbital synthetic aperture side scanning look-down radar (capable of deep penetration geological structure profiling) and our fabulous keyhole KH birds are lightyears beyond what Israel deploys at this time. For the nonce, we'll avoid speculating upon neutron emission detectors and other remote sensing technologies. We may well have significant evidence of Iranian nuclear arms progress that cannot be shared with Israel, if only to conceal the true extent of our ability in probing both Iranian and Israeli installations alike. This could well be what is preventing us from sharing such intelligence that might otherwise propel Israel towards more definitive action. ------------------------- You certainly know well enough how to use Google. You also have 0.20 seconds to assure the veracity of what you post. What I posted is true, and you know it. Additionally, it is ironic in the extreme that you should accuse me of "baiting" when it is you who have done exactly that. |
| Posted by: Zenster 2004-06-23 3:39:23 AM |
| #30 Nice try, .com, but you can do better than that. A lot better, one would think. Google: Results 1 - 5 of about 6 for synthetic aperture rantburg. (0.20 seconds) ... Though I saw Zenster disparage it here yesterday or today as, apparently, less reliable than published reports ... My words were hardly "disparaging." To wit: ------------------------- While Mossad's skills and penetration of regional activity are nothing to sneeze at, Israel does not possess anything remotely approaching those intelligence assets enjoyed by the United States. Such sensing capabilities as orbital synthetic aperture side scanning look-down radar (capable of deep penetration geological structure profiling) and our fabulous keyhole KH birds are lightyears beyond what Israel deploys at this time. For the nonce, we'll avoid speculating upon neutron emission detectors and other remote sensing technologies. We may well have significant evidence of Iranian nuclear arms progress that cannot be shared with Israel, if only to conceal the true extent of our ability in probing both Iranian and Israeli installations alike. This could well be what is preventing us from sharing such intelligence that might otherwise propel Israel towards more definitive action. ------------------------- You certainly know well enough how to use Google. You also have 0.20 seconds to assure the veracity of what you post. What I posted is true, and you know it. Additionally, it is ironic in the extreme that you should accuse me of "baiting" when it is you who have done exactly that. |
| Posted by: Anonymous5329 2004-06-22 7:04:49 PM |
| #29 Nice try, .com, but you can do better than that. A lot better, one would think. Google: Results 1 - 5 of about 6 for synthetic aperture rantburg. (0.20 seconds) ... Though I saw Zenster disparage it here yesterday or today as, apparently, less reliable than published reports ... My words were hardly "disparaging." To wit: ------------------------- While Mossad's skills and penetration of regional activity are nothing to sneeze at, Israel does not possess anything remotely approaching those intelligence assets enjoyed by the United States. Such sensing capabilities as orbital synthetic aperture side scanning look-down radar (capable of deep penetration geological structure profiling) and our fabulous keyhole KH birds are lightyears beyond what Israel deploys at this time. For the nonce, we'll avoid speculating upon neutron emission detectors and other remote sensing technologies. We may well have significant evidence of Iranian nuclear arms progress that cannot be shared with Israel, if only to conceal the true extent of our ability in probing both Iranian and Israeli installations alike. This could well be what is preventing us from sharing such intelligence that might otherwise propel Israel towards more definitive action. ------------------------- You certainly know well enough how to use Google. You also have 0.20 seconds to assure the veracity of what you post. What I posted is true, and you know it. Additionally, it is ironic in the extreme that you should accuse me of "baiting" when it is you who have done exactly that. |
| Posted by: Anonymous5329 2004-06-22 7:04:49 PM |
| #28 Nice try, .com, but you can do better than that. A lot better, one would think. Google: Results 1 - 5 of about 6 for synthetic aperture rantburg. (0.20 seconds) ... Though I saw Zenster disparage it here yesterday or today as, apparently, less reliable than published reports ... My words were hardly "disparaging." To wit: ------------------------- While Mossad's skills and penetration of regional activity are nothing to sneeze at, Israel does not possess anything remotely approaching those intelligence assets enjoyed by the United States. Such sensing capabilities as orbital synthetic aperture side scanning look-down radar (capable of deep penetration geological structure profiling) and our fabulous keyhole KH birds are lightyears beyond what Israel deploys at this time. For the nonce, we'll avoid speculating upon neutron emission detectors and other remote sensing technologies. We may well have significant evidence of Iranian nuclear arms progress that cannot be shared with Israel, if only to conceal the true extent of our ability in probing both Iranian and Israeli installations alike. This could well be what is preventing us from sharing such intelligence that might otherwise propel Israel towards more definitive action. ------------------------- You certainly know well enough how to use Google. You also have 0.20 seconds to assure the veracity of what you post. What I posted is true, and you know it. Additionally, it is ironic in the extreme that you should accuse me of "baiting" when it is you who have done exactly that. |
| Posted by: Zenster 2004-06-22 6:08:27 PM |
| #27 Nice try, .com, but you can do better than that. A lot better, one would think. Google: Results 1 - 5 of about 6 for synthetic aperture rantburg. (0.20 seconds) ... Though I saw Zenster disparage it here yesterday or today as, apparently, less reliable than published reports ... My words were hardly "disparaging." To wit: ------------------------- While Mossad's skills and penetration of regional activity are nothing to sneeze at, Israel does not possess anything remotely approaching those intelligence assets enjoyed by the United States. Such sensing capabilities as orbital synthetic aperture side scanning look-down radar (capable of deep penetration geological structure profiling) and our fabulous keyhole KH birds are lightyears beyond what Israel deploys at this time. For the nonce, we'll avoid speculating upon neutron emission detectors and other remote sensing technologies. We may well have significant evidence of Iranian nuclear arms progress that cannot be shared with Israel, if only to conceal the true extent of our ability in probing both Iranian and Israeli installations alike. This could well be what is preventing us from sharing such intelligence that might otherwise propel Israel towards more definitive action. ------------------------- You certainly know well enough how to use Google. You also have 0.20 seconds to assure the veracity of what you post. What I posted is true, and you know it. Additionally, it is ironic in the extreme that you should accuse me of "baiting" when it is you who have done exactly that. |
| Posted by: Zenster 2004-06-22 6:08:27 PM |
| #26 Nice try, .com, but you can do better than that. A lot better, one would think. Google: Results 1 - 5 of about 6 for synthetic aperture rantburg. (0.20 seconds) ... Though I saw Zenster disparage it here yesterday or today as, apparently, less reliable than published reports ... My words were hardly "disparaging." To wit: ------------------------- While Mossad's skills and penetration of regional activity are nothing to sneeze at, Israel does not possess anything remotely approaching those intelligence assets enjoyed by the United States. Such sensing capabilities as orbital synthetic aperture side scanning look-down radar (capable of deep penetration geological structure profiling) and our fabulous keyhole KH birds are lightyears beyond what Israel deploys at this time. For the nonce, we'll avoid speculating upon neutron emission detectors and other remote sensing technologies. We may well have significant evidence of Iranian nuclear arms progress that cannot be shared with Israel, if only to conceal the true extent of our ability in probing both Iranian and Israeli installations alike. This could well be what is preventing us from sharing such intelligence that might otherwise propel Israel towards more definitive action. ------------------------- You certainly know well enough how to use Google. You also have 0.20 seconds to assure the veracity of what you post. What I posted is true, and you know it. Additionally, it is ironic in the extreme that you should accuse me of "baiting" when it is you who have done exactly that. |
| Posted by: Anonymous5329 2004-06-22 5:46:25 PM |
| #25 Nice try, .com, but you can do better than that. A lot better, one would think. Google: Results 1 - 5 of about 6 for synthetic aperture rantburg. (0.20 seconds) ... Though I saw Zenster disparage it here yesterday or today as, apparently, less reliable than published reports ... My words were hardly "disparaging." To wit: ------------------------- While Mossad's skills and penetration of regional activity are nothing to sneeze at, Israel does not possess anything remotely approaching those intelligence assets enjoyed by the United States. Such sensing capabilities as orbital synthetic aperture side scanning look-down radar (capable of deep penetration geological structure profiling) and our fabulous keyhole KH birds are lightyears beyond what Israel deploys at this time. For the nonce, we'll avoid speculating upon neutron emission detectors and other remote sensing technologies. We may well have significant evidence of Iranian nuclear arms progress that cannot be shared with Israel, if only to conceal the true extent of our ability in probing both Iranian and Israeli installations alike. This could well be what is preventing us from sharing such intelligence that might otherwise propel Israel towards more definitive action. ------------------------- You certainly know well enough how to use Google. You also have 0.20 seconds to assure the veracity of what you post. What I posted is true, and you know it. Additionally, it is ironic in the extreme that you should accuse me of "baiting" when it is you who have done exactly that. |
| Posted by: Anonymous5329 2004-06-22 5:46:25 PM |
| #24 Nice try .com, but you can better than that. A lot better, one would think. #12 ... Though I saw Zenster disparage it here yesterday or today as, apparently, less reliable than published reports ... My words were hardly "diaparaging." Google: Results 1 - 5 of about 6 for synthetic aperture rantburg. (0.20 seconds) ------------------ While Mossad's skills and penetration of regional activity are nothing to sneeze at, Israel does not possess anything remotely approaching those intelligence assets enjoyed by the United States. Such sensing capabilities as orbital synthetic aperture side scanning look-down radar (capable of deep penetration geological structure profiling) and our fabulous keyhole KH birds are lightyears beyond what Israel deploys at this time. For the nonce, we'll avoid speculating upon neutron emission detectors and other remote sensing technologies. We may well have significant evidence of Iranian nuclear arms progress that cannot be shared with Israel, if only to conceal the true extent of our ability in probing both Iranian and Israeli installations alike. This could well be what is preventing us from sharing such intelligence that might otherwise propel Israel towards more definitive action. ------------------ .com, you know well enough how to use Google. You also have 0.20 seconds to ensure the veracity of your own statements. What I posted is correct and you know it very well. Additionally, it is more than a little ironic that you have accused me of "baiting" when it is you who has done exactly that. |
| Posted by: Zenster 2004-06-22 4:42:42 PM |
| #23 Nice try .com, but you can better than that. A lot better, one would think. #12 ... Though I saw Zenster disparage it here yesterday or today as, apparently, less reliable than published reports ... My words were hardly "diaparaging." Google: Results 1 - 5 of about 6 for synthetic aperture rantburg. (0.20 seconds) ------------------ While Mossad's skills and penetration of regional activity are nothing to sneeze at, Israel does not possess anything remotely approaching those intelligence assets enjoyed by the United States. Such sensing capabilities as orbital synthetic aperture side scanning look-down radar (capable of deep penetration geological structure profiling) and our fabulous keyhole KH birds are lightyears beyond what Israel deploys at this time. For the nonce, we'll avoid speculating upon neutron emission detectors and other remote sensing technologies. We may well have significant evidence of Iranian nuclear arms progress that cannot be shared with Israel, if only to conceal the true extent of our ability in probing both Iranian and Israeli installations alike. This could well be what is preventing us from sharing such intelligence that might otherwise propel Israel towards more definitive action. ------------------ .com, you know well enough how to use Google. You also have 0.20 seconds to ensure the veracity of your own statements. What I posted is correct and you know it very well. Additionally, it is more than a little ironic that you have accused me of "baiting" when it is you who has done exactly that. |
| Posted by: Zenster 2004-06-22 4:42:42 PM |
| #22 Nice try, .com, but you can do better than that. A lot better, one would think. Google: Results 1 - 5 of about 6 for synthetic aperture rantburg. (0.20 seconds) #12 ... Though I saw Zenster disparage it here yesterday or today as, apparently, less reliable than published reports ... My words were hardly "disparaging." ---------------- While Mossad's skills and penetration of regional activity are nothing to sneeze at, Israel does not possess anything remotely approaching those intelligence assets enjoyed by the United States. Such sensing capabilities as orbital synthetic aperture side scanning look-down radar (capable of deep penetration geological structure profiling) and our fabulous keyhole KH birds are lightyears beyond what Israel deploys at this time. For the nonce, we'll avoid speculating upon neutron emission detectors and other remote sensing technologies. We may well have significant evidence of Iranian nuclear arms progress that cannot be shared with Israel, if only to conceal the true extent of our ability in probing both Iranian and Israeli installations alike. This could well be what is preventing us from sharing such intelligence that might otherwise propel Israel towards more definitive action. ---------------- .com, you know well enough how to use Google. You also have 0.20 seconds to make sure what you say is accurate. In addition, you also know that what I posted was completely true. How ironic that you have accused me in disparaging terms of "baiting" when it's you who has done exactly that. |
| Posted by: Zenster 2004-06-22 4:31:19 PM |
| #21 Nice try, .com, but you can do better than that. A lot better, one would think. Google: Results 1 - 5 of about 6 for synthetic aperture rantburg. (0.20 seconds) #12 ... Though I saw Zenster disparage it here yesterday or today as, apparently, less reliable than published reports ... My words were hardly "disparaging." ---------------- While Mossad's skills and penetration of regional activity are nothing to sneeze at, Israel does not possess anything remotely approaching those intelligence assets enjoyed by the United States. Such sensing capabilities as orbital synthetic aperture side scanning look-down radar (capable of deep penetration geological structure profiling) and our fabulous keyhole KH birds are lightyears beyond what Israel deploys at this time. For the nonce, we'll avoid speculating upon neutron emission detectors and other remote sensing technologies. We may well have significant evidence of Iranian nuclear arms progress that cannot be shared with Israel, if only to conceal the true extent of our ability in probing both Iranian and Israeli installations alike. This could well be what is preventing us from sharing such intelligence that might otherwise propel Israel towards more definitive action. ---------------- .com, you know well enough how to use Google. You also have 0.20 seconds to make sure what you say is accurate. In addition, you also know that what I posted was completely true. How ironic that you have accused me in disparaging terms of "baiting" when it's you who has done exactly that. |
| Posted by: Zenster 2004-06-22 4:31:19 PM |
| #20 Aw shit. 3 minutes. That's it? A summary rejection? No real-world analysis of the situation, no working through what's actually possible - instead of what would make you personally feel better? Just a rehash of your personal vanity view - certainly sans substance? Was that just too much for you to read? Or was it the "comprehension" part that was too much of a strain... I see you spent 3 WHOLE MINUTES on it... and obviously much of that typing your regurgitated opinion. Excellent job. Thanks so much. I'll know better than to ask you again for your thoughts - you've got 'em already pre-digested and hot-keyed as AP remarked elsewhere. Is there a virus going around? I've read 300-400 posts just like this over the last 3 or 4 months. All hot 'n bothered and full of invective and dire threats and and and fucking NOTHING of substance. NOTHING constructive. NOTHING actionable. NOTHING noteworthy. NOTHING new. So RB is actually now a therapy site. Fred should be charging by the hour - it would be damned profitable. I hope you feel better. Funny, these posts ("I want action and I want it NOW!" and "Bush should be doing this!" and "Bush should be saying that!" Blah Blah fucking Blah) sound just like a buncha Paleos seething. Just as effective and worthwhile, too. Too bad you couldn't have engaged your brain and been constructive - within the confines of reality. That I would've liked to have read. So now I know where you fit into the strata. |
| Posted by: .com 2004-06-23 12:44:28 AM |
| #19 Sorry, .com, but I disagree with your censure of "voyeurs" as you refer to critics of President Bush's PC view of curing the Arab world of terrorist predilictions by offering the ME a taste of democracy. Of course, the country is divided, and why is that not legitimate? Not all of us believe as George Bush believes that the answer to combating terrorism is to offer Muslims democracy...of course, a few thousand American GI's have to be lost in the course of this wild experiment and then there is also the matter of $87 billion dollars...no worries...all religions, all cultures, all races are on the same footing when it comes to valuing democracy over monotheism...you don't think this innocent wild eyed theory deserves to be criticized? We cannot do a single thing about Iranian or North Korean transgressions against coalition countries -we need to swallow everything either country shoves in our faces because the world's policeman is over extending giving an IV of democracy to ungrateful Sunnis and Shiites in Iraq and the other Western nations are busy debating the vitues of same sex marriage and socialized medicine blah, blah. We should all get accustomed to the taste of humble pie because there is more where this is coming from... |
| Posted by: rex 2004-06-23 12:13:50 AM |
| #18 Traveller - I hear what you say about the Skor - I hit the mute when they played his screaming pleas. I'm sorry, but there's just no way I could ever give them such satisfaction - the hatred would give bravado, false or not. His death was foreordained, of course, regardless of the dance. Much less dangerous for them to kill him - within hours - all they need to do the tape the scripted garbage they pre-planned. The FoxNews people say that Al Zarqawi claims to have 10 more hostages - and it seems there are, indeed, at least that many more missing non-terrorist types. Expect the worst, you won't be disappointed. Re: Iran. Anything less than regime change is a replay of Gulf War I, IMHO. We'll be back in 3, 5, 8 yrs to do it all over again, complete with the sniping and back-biting regards not doing it when all the men & materiel were in place -- plus the loss of any possibility of surprise. There was a thread here a few days ago where I attempted to enlist some input on what to do with Iran. This is the link. It didn't work out that any assistance was forthcoming, unless political diatribe would scare them into running away, but you prolly recall some posts I made back upon a time. You know how much I loves the Black Hats! Anyway, Comment #18 is where I take a shot at a first-pass analysis, logic, and choose an option and outline some action. You might be interested in helping me with it, should my logic about Gulf War I ring true to you. If not, well, it was worth a shot! Grins & Best Regs! |
| Posted by: .com 2004-06-22 11:53:47 PM |
| #17 Dearest Mr. Dot and Mr. Com...lol Alas, work is only allowing me breif moments here, (fortunantly, I like very much what I do), but you mentioned the other day, "a bumpy ride ahead..." Little did we know. The killing of the Korean today affected me much more than Nick Berg or that of Mr. Johnson. For whatever reason, his taped plea for life, really got to me...(I am so affected I can't talk about it). Then there was the capture of the British sailors, and Prince Abdullah's comment re the Jews again...all I can say, over and over, is WTF? And what the F*** was the Korean doing in Fallujah? The mind boggles....I hope that the news reports were just in error and that he was well outside the city when captured. Reagardless, as Cato the Elder would say at the opening of every Senate session, "Carthage must be destroyed!" So I am coming to the believe that Fallujah, and all of it, must be destroyed. But with apologies...Sorry, but we are going to squeeze Fallujah dry...within three days, everyone with a gun will be killed. Very simple, and we are sorry...really. But it will be done. As to the Black Turbans? Shit, there has been floated the idea of a strike on the Revolutionaly Council when sitting in full session, followed by the occupation the nuclear facilities. But to assassinate an entire government? Sigh...I'm just not there yet. Real Best Wishes to you Mr. Com |
| Posted by: Traveller 2004-06-22 11:35:46 PM |
| #16 Unless, that is, they have some means other than a mud-mover mission with piloted aircraft. Subs? They must have a few. |
| Posted by: Rafael 2004-06-22 11:18:28 PM |
| #15 Trav - And your thoughts today are the same: hit the nuke facilities only, leaving the Khomeini regime in place? |
| Posted by: .com 2004-06-22 11:11:47 PM |
| #14 Thanks for the very nice thread. I do disagree with .com a little. More than a year ago I wrote to all my congress people as to the advisability of a short, sharp military action against the Iranian Nuclear facilities...to even holding the ground for a week or so to ensure that the destruction was complete. However, this would have to be accompanied by sincere, very public apologies, over and over, for what was done. But also made clear that it would be done again, in any other country, if necessary. Sorry, so sorry, and with some compensation for the Iranian families of those killed. My approach. Best Wishes, Traveller |
| Posted by: Traveller 2004-06-22 11:01:54 PM |
| #13 .com, you're right about the humint being the best; one of the biggest mistakes the CIA has made (not sure when, not as up on the history of the agency as I'd like to be, but probably starting in the '80s) was to downsize manpower in favor of automated methods. Satellites and listening stations are good for some things, but they can't - and never will - replace a keen eye and a good ear and a disillusioned man willing to talk. |
| Posted by: The Doctor 2004-06-22 3:44:13 PM |
| #12 Because they're not "there" yet... I would wager that intelligence on Iran is quite good, especially relative to other ME countries. Though I saw Zenster disparage it here yesterday or today as, apparently, less reliable than published reports (no I didn't save the link), I believe that humint and first-hand (or second-hand intel from a trusted source) is the most valuable kind. You're right - for Israel it's life and death - and if they thought the Black Hats were ready to follow through on their threats - I am certain that they would execute a strike plan. I'm sure they would hope for assistance from us (refueling or whatever their plans call for), but even if a one-way trip I have no doubt that pilots would line up to volunteer. Unless, that is, they have some means other than a mud-mover mission with piloted aircraft. Every day in Israel is potentially the last, thanks to Islam. |
| Posted by: .com 2004-06-22 3:41:09 PM |
| #11 .com, why do you think we haven't seen action by Israel by now? The mullahs getting nukes is bad for us, but death for Israel. |
| Posted by: Matt 2004-06-22 3:31:21 PM |
| #10 Hey, YS - :) Y'know, I was wondering... If it had been 8 US sailors nabbed by Iran, do you think that would make any difference? The bile factor would double hereabouts, but Bush would be in the same spot Blair's in: public support so bitterly divided that any action would result in cries of too much! too little! and inappropriate response! (from those who weren't sure but hate Blair so they swing for the fence anyway). Truly sad that our fifth column is fat and thick with looney groups of every stripe and publicized with sober-sounding supportive editorial agendas across the majority of MSM. It just boggles. |
| Posted by: .com 2004-06-22 3:16:12 PM |
| #9 Well put .com. You have it. |
| Posted by: Yosemite Sam 2004-06-22 2:42:11 PM |
| #8 We all are, Michael, to some degree. But my favorites are those glibly calling for military action and bashing Bush because he can't microwave this problem - without taking into account that little thing known as reality - and in particular, the disingenuous among us. I am no fan of the Black Hats / Mad Mullahs. I have been an advocate of decapitating that regime, posted numerous times here on RB over the last 18+ months, because they have made the cassis belli for us, IMO. Rafsanjani and Khomeini have both made proclamations regards what they will do with it as soon as they get their hands on a missile, guidance, and nuke pkg: wipe out Israel. Recall "tick... tock.." posts. Evolving simultaneously over this period from when the Iranians started making these statements, upgraded their Shahad-3 (into a Shahad-4, actually with the req'd range, via NorK), received significant assistance from Russia overtly on Nuke Plants and older centrifuges, and even more covertly from Pakistan (nuke tech, incl design plans for P2 centrifuges), other reality factors have risen which deserve prominent billing on the program... Were the US not so bitterly divided by hate politics, and were this not an election year, the probability of military action, sooner rather than later, would be dramatically higher. Because of domestic politics, we sit here on our hands waiting for November. Those who demand action now, remarkably, include people who contribute to the fact that Bush's hands are tied by domestic politics. Consider, if you will, the damned-if-you-do and damned-if-you-don't position he is in. The Hue & Cry™ should he opt for either the short-term objective, to try to destroy the nuke production facilities, much less the long-term objective of regime change, would undoubtedly result in a screech level we haven't seen in the US since Lincoln's re-election campaign. Impeachment bills would be as common as the LLL articles we comment on here in RB. My point is that, since we are not anywhere near all on the same page, pulling together to fight the WoT in all its manifestations, and the Iranian Mad Mullahs getting their hands on deliverable nukes qualifies in my eyes, much of the hawkish stuff posted is moot - and total bullshit when posted by those who are party to the division and bitterness. |
| Posted by: .com 2004-06-22 2:25:43 PM |
| #7 Who are the voyeurs, .com? |
| Posted by: Michael 2004-06-22 1:55:25 PM |
| #6 .com, does this mean that you support dialogue with Iran even though the mullahs, and North Korea alike, have consistently used such time consuming diplomatic exchanges as a fig leaf for prolonged stalling while they fabricate nuclear weapons? Iran's Islamic government has displayed absolutely nothing but bad faith in all of their dealings with the outside world. Their domestic policies are an even greater trainwreck of human rights violations and financing international terrorist groups. Aside from direct military intervention, what other modes of defusing their headlong rush towards nuclear armaments exist? While enticing, covert support for an internal rebellion may not achieve success within the limited timeframe required to ensure that Iran does not fabricate any nuclear devices. |
| Posted by: Zenster 2004-06-22 11:29:06 AM |
| #5 It's always fascinating to hear the deep thoughts of pure voyeurs as they glibly critique those who must actually accomplish things and will be held accountable to those who appointed them. |
| Posted by: .com 2004-06-22 10:23:46 AM |
| #4 Referring to the last part of the original: The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Faster, please. |
| Posted by: Michael 2004-06-22 9:29:54 AM |
| #3 Let's not do anything rash until the suicide bombers get underway. Don't let Specter go out alone with the Iranian for a liquid lunch. And tell Armitage to keep his pie hole closed. |
| Posted by: Capt America 2004-06-22 2:39:56 AM |
| #2 Only a matter of time now. When those strategically place seismic detectors go off from the Iranians first 'yield' test, Israel will crap in their pants: and the US will go nuts with "what to do next". My advice is to give the proverbial 'Green Light' to Sharon to 'neutralize' the situation, and be ready, hell or high water to back him up, if need be. Only allow one retaliatory strike from Iran!!! |
| Posted by: smn 2004-06-22 2:27:38 AM |
| #1 Here is an illustration: Powell Hints at Sanctions for Iran. Why would we be hinting? |
| Posted by: Super Hose 2004-06-22 1:32:25 AM |