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| Europe |
| Germanyâs ruling coalition says Rumsfeld should go |
| 2004-05-12 |
| Leaders of Germanyâs ruling coalition called for the resignation of US Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld today, warning the West would be held collectively accountable for the abuse of Iraqi prisoners. But no members of Chancellor Gerhard Schroederâs centre-left government joined in the chorus urging Rumsfeld to step down. Franz Muentefering, chairman of Schoederâs Social Democrats, and the SPDâs foreign policy expert in parliament, Gernot Erler, said Rumsfeld should leave office. Erler told German Radio it was ââcompletely warrantedââ for Rumsfeld to resign. ââIn any case the whole chain of command has to be held accountable,ââ Erler said. Muentefering, speaking on N24 television, said:ââI know that if this involved Germany I would see to it that a personnel change would be made.ââ The leader of the SPDâs junior coalition partners, the Greens, had demanded Rumsfeld quit last week. The remarks from the SPD and Greens leaders are a break with the usual diplomatic protocol of not interfering in the internal politics of a close ally, although neither Schroeder nor Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer have made any comments on Rumsfeld. Rumsfeld has taken responsibility for the abuse of prisoners by U S troops and offered his ââdeepest apologyââ, but said he would not resign just to satisfy his political enemies. |
| Posted by:TS(vice girl) |
| #19 Robert - of course it's no accident. It never is, if the LLL is involved. |
| Posted by: Barbara Skolaut 2004-05-12 11:19:04 PM |
| #18 I've been fascinated by the people who cite the Taguba report as evidence that the abuse was wide-spread. The report actually concludes the exact opposite. It's also interesting that the appendices to the report haven't been leaked. Considering one of them is the psychologist's opinion that the abuse was carried out by a small unsupervised group, I don't think that's an accident. |
| Posted by: Robert Crawford 2004-05-12 10:32:09 PM |
| #17 We can laugh all we want to, but the media has obviously made it their number one priority to rid themselves of Rumsfeld. Just today, I saw on PBS a "panel" discussion of independents, republicans and democrats. They were obviously picked because they had one thing in common - they all said someone up the chain of command must pay. It was pure planned propaganda designed to "lead" the audience into believing this was what we all agree on. Army and Navy Times had an "editorial" that implied Rumsefeld was to blame. Note that the Times are owned by Gannett and run by civilians. I'm guessing Gannett told the Times to run it. And though the military simply dismisses the Times Journal as meaningless, the propaganda effect of saying that "Army Times said it" is useful for the population as a whole. Even here on rantburg we had a troll who claimed her husband served in "Nam" and she put out the idea that if the poor little prison guards were going down -then higher ups better damn well go with them. We rantburgers understand that either her husband was an animal - or he would understand that the actions of these guards were not a failure of leadership, but an act of sadistic men. I could go on. It reminds me of before the war, when the media was likewise willing to single mindedly pull out all stops to achieve a goal. They failed then and they most likely will fail again - but the fact that they are willing to attempt it shows that, for whatever reason, they are hanging their hat on this issue. Expect this drumbeat to continue and continue and continue and continue. Don't underestimate them. They actually were able to get the Democrats to say that sexually harrassing an intern was a "private matter". We are losing the propaganda war in this country. If Americans allow the media to play these games - at the expense of our security we will fail. Somehow Americans need to fight back and win this propaganda war. We are losing it. It is the biggest battle we face today. |
| Posted by: B 2004-05-12 10:24:35 PM |
| #16 Welcome back TGA. |
| Posted by: Mr. Davis 2004-05-12 10:21:10 PM |
| #15 Come on over, TGA, even if it's only for a visit. Richmond's got some great micro-breweries downtown. |
| Posted by: Barbara Skolaut 2004-05-12 10:09:57 PM |
| #14 You are never too old. Drop by anytime, the beer is on us. |
| Posted by: Mike 2004-05-12 9:58:40 PM |
| #13 Thank you all, it's good to be back! Barbara and Mike, that would mean that Germany actually HAS "leaders" or a "ruling coalition". It's incredible how they have been messing up this country for 5 years now. Please just ignore what they say. I do. Damn I'm really too old to move to America. |
| Posted by: True German Ally 2004-05-12 9:57:08 PM |
| #12 TGA: What everyone else said. "Germany?s ruling coalition says Rumsfeld should go" -- *yawn* Who cares? "Rumsfeld says Germany?s ruling coalition should go" -- now that would be something to pay attention to! |
| Posted by: Mike 2004-05-12 9:37:28 PM |
| #11 Holy Crap Rafael! From the same link: It would seem that Mr. Cohn-Bendit (Greenâs Chairman in the European parliament; Fischer is Greens) already has a distinguished career as an author of controversial texts. In 1975 he published a book entitled "The Big Bazaar." The following passages from his book have repeatedly raised allegations that he sexually abused small children: From the chapter "Little Big Men" pages 139 to 147: "My constant flirt with all children soon took on erotic characteristics. I could really feel how the little girls of five years had already learned to turn me on. It is hardly believable. Most of the time I was pretty disarmed. (â¦) It happened to me several times that some of the children opened the flap of my pants and started to pet me. I reacted differently based on the circumstances, but their wish caused a dilemma for me. I asked them: âWhy donât you play with each other, why have you chosen me and not the other children?â But when they insisted I petted them nonetheless." Please don't tell me he runs a day care in his spare time. Weren't both Cohn-Bendit and Fischer Red Brigades sympathizers/supporters in the late 60s? |
| Posted by: ed 2004-05-12 9:36:35 PM |
| #10 "Leaders of Germany?s ruling coalition called for the resignation of US Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld today... |
| Posted by: Old Grouch 2004-05-12 9:33:30 PM |
| #9 Willkommen zuruck, TGA! (Vergeben Sie mir bitte mein schlechtes Deutsch; ich wohne da vor viele Jahre.) If the German "leaders" want Rumsfeld gone, he must be doing a GREAT job. Keep it up, Rummy! Drive the foreign and domestic LLL nuts. :-p |
| Posted by: Barbara Skolaut 2004-05-12 9:23:16 PM |
| #8 ...although neither Schroeder nor Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer have made any comments on Rumsfeld. Is this the same Joschka Fischer who wants Bush to be voted out? (via Davids Medienkritik) |
| Posted by: Rafael 2004-05-12 9:22:04 PM |
| #7 welcome back TGA! "Agreed" is all I have to add, Frank |
| Posted by: Frank G 2004-05-12 8:56:45 PM |
| #6 Welcome back, TGA. |
| Posted by: Matt 2004-05-12 8:47:54 PM |
| #5 Kathy K, it's practically a ringing endorsement to my ears. |
| Posted by: Scott 2004-05-12 8:33:35 PM |
| #4 First of all, greetings to the RB crowd. I have not left, just was away for a while. I won't comment on the SPD that has sunk so low that the only thing they can get some applause with is lashing out against America. Let me offer you my opinion about Abu Graib. I'm certainly not amused with these pictures: They damage the American cause and should never have been published. From what I understand the abuses have been investigated and measures are going to be taken, so that's fine. There may have been incidents that are inexcusable, but let me tell you this: I know what torture is, and you have seen anything remotely on TV that would qualify. Too bad the Soviets didn't have digital cameras in 1946. Too bad that Saddam's thugs didn't use them in Abu Graib until early 2003. Would have been educating to compare. The affair is vastly overblown. Yes these pictures don't play well in the Arab street but I guess the only picture that WOULD play well there is a public hanging of Bush or some US city going up in smoke. As long as the Arab world doesn't rise up to protest that a defenseless innocent man is decapitated to the words of "Allahu akbar" I don't think "excuses" or "apologies" are rank very high on the to do list. There is nothing to argue with people like that. As for Donald Rumsfeld: He's the finest and most competent defense secretary that the U.S. has had since WW2. And unlike most of the Democrat senators he knows what War on Terror truly means. There is absolutely no reason to blame him for sitting on the photos. This is a war going on. A secretary of defense isn't supposed to release anything that helps and comforts the enemy. |
| Posted by: True German Ally 2004-05-12 8:32:08 PM |
| #3 "Germanyâs ruling coalition says Rumsfeld should go" Sounds like an excellent reason to keep him. |
| Posted by: Kathy K 2004-05-12 8:26:19 PM |
| #2 Thanks for your opinion. Now "Hau ab". Or, as we used to say in joke German, "fick auf". |
| Posted by: Carl in N.H. 2004-05-12 8:25:29 PM |
| #1 And I demand that German leaders be gassed and burned in ovens. I hear it's an old German custom. |
| Posted by: ed 2004-05-12 8:07:24 PM |