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| Southeast Asia |
| Hambaliâs wife in Malaysian custody for questioning |
| 2003-08-16 |
| More Leverage on the Hambone KUALA LUMPUR: Hambaliâs Malaysian wife, Noralwizah Lee Abdullah, has been handed over to the federal police here by their Thai counterparts. It is learnt that Noralwizah @ Lee Yin Len, who was arrested together with Hambali in the central Thai city of Ayutthaya on Monday, was flown into the country escorted by both Thai and Malaysian police. your husband? Oh...heâll be enjoying the evils of GITMO! Sources said Special Branch officers from the federal police headquarters in Bukit Aman then took her into their custody. However, it is not immediately known where she is being detained. In Bangkok, Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra confirmed that Hambali, dubbed by Western media as the Osama bin Laden of the East, had been planning an attack on the Apec summit scheduled to be held in Bangkok at the end of October. âHe was not just using Thailand as a transit point. He came to mount a terrorist attack. The investigation uncovered an attack being planned for the Apec meeting,â Thaksin told reporters. The meeting in the Thai capital will bring together 21 world leaders including US President George W. Bush. However, Thaksin refused to state where Hambali, widely said to be terror organisation al-Qaedaâs point man in Asia, was now being held although news agencies reported that he was now in US custody. As Fred says: "I cannot say more" Hambali is accused of plotting last yearâs bombings on Indonesiaâs resort island of Bali as well as a string of other attacks. Sources said the 33-year-old Noralwizah, who followed her husband to go into hiding, would be able to provide valuable information regarding her husbandâs activities. They want to question her on Hambaliâs associates and their whereabouts. be a good check on his stories... "thatâs not what your wife said.." Inspector-General of Police Tan Sri Norian Mai, who confirmed that Noralwizah was in Malaysian police custody, said: âWe requested for her to be handed over to us so that she can assist us in our investigations.â Noralwizah, a Sabahan, married Hambali after they met at the Luqmanul Hakiem school in Ulu Tiram, Johor. The school was founded by Abdullah Sungkar and Abubakar Baâasyir - both known leaders of Jemaah Islamiah (JI), a militant group with ties to al-Qaeda. Her sister Ai Lin @ Norfadilah Lee is married to Dandand Surman @ Abu Yusof, another JI member who is also on the run. The sources said Noralwizah and Hambali shuttled between Thailand and Cambodia frequently. Hambali allegedly used a fake Spanish passport while Noralwizah is said to have used her Malaysian passport. The sources said that Hambali was wearing a pair of jeans and a T-shirt as well as a baseball cap and sunglasses when he was nabbed at the apartment complex where he and Noralwizah were staying. He looked like Elvis after the plastic surgery, big mistake Thai newspapers also reported that police seized a substantial amount of explosives and firearms from him during the raid. In Pekan, Defence Minister Datuk Seri Najib Tun Razak warned that there might be other JI terrorist cells in the region, reports ZULKIFLI ABDUL RAHMAN. ? Najib said Hambaliâs arrest was the result of good co-operation between Malaysian and regional intelligence authorities, adding that the spirit of information sharing among the countries on terrorism should be applauded. âHowever, we should not consider that his arrest means that the terrorism threat in the region is over. âWe must continue to be on the lookout for subversive activities here or anywhere else at all times,â Najib said at a social gathering with soldiers and villagers. a social gathering involving interrogations and searches? |
| Posted by:Frank G |
| #8 So that's your whole rationale? Tit for tat playground logic? Lessee, I didn't identify the thread nor the poster - open attack? Only in your mind. From your posts, I certainly expected better than this. The facts are all right there, just above, but you just stick your chin out as if that's a response. I understand causality very well. In this case, it's push a hot button, get a knee jerk. Not at all classy, as I expected. |
| Posted by: .com 2003-8-17 10:24:01 AM |
| #7 PD: I know your history well since you've never been shy about broadcasting it here. I never questioned your past. Only what you're doing in the present. If you are going to attack me in an open forum (i.e. calling me a zero, etc.), you better expect an open response. I mean that's what you were trying to to do by digging up that old thread, wasn't it? Surely as a coder you understand causality? |
| Posted by: 11A5S 2003-8-17 9:25:14 AM |
| #6 11A5S Here it is in sequence, exactly as posted. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fred - Closing comments to which I responded: It's good that some Arab thinkers can recognize the sterility of thought that's prevalent throughout not only the Arab world but the entire Muslim world. Sometimes I genuinely pity the entire Muslim world. Ignorant and oppressed, the women are reduced to breeding stock, the men to cannon fodder. They're forbidden to do things most of us barely think of in passing â singing, dancing, swimming (even skinny dipping), cracking jokes, getting drunk, occasionally getting laid. They're "educated" with a continuous diet of hatred and religious mumbo-jumbo instead of acquiring skills that would make them competetive in the world. It's sad, really â an utter waste of a large segment of humanity. Who would want to live in a world where his/her/its children's greatest aspiration would be to grow up to be dangerous? Then some bastard hollers "jihad!" and the shootings and the bombings start up again and I realize they could all go straight to hell and I wouldn't really bat an eye. Posted by Fred Pruitt 2003-8-12 13:33 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- .com - Fred's summary really does summarize the dilemma. I would add that the author is overgenerous regards Arab achivements - they stopped long before 1948 - they stopped when Little Mo's influence began to hold sway in the region. Note: It IS Islam that created the sick twisted societies that Arabs accept as normal - they've had 1400 yrs of it, so it is their norm. Even when they go abroad long enough to begin to appreciate that it isn't the world's norm, they still revert to it upon return - for it is thoroughly institutionalized and enforced. They do not produce any lone wolves (free thinking people)in Islam - it is specifically bred out, in fact. In the end, however, and as Fred uses as his closer, the tragedy of Islam becomes moot. Islam is a pathogen that causes a fatal disease. Posted by: ·com 2003-8-12 3:30:03 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- *com, you are correct, but, if you want to persuade it is best not to insult everything about the culture and religion of those you wish to persuade. It is best to provide a target that is part of the problem and that everyone dislikes (like the military and corrupt governments) and concentrate your shots there. Posted by: Yank 2003-8-12 3:49:18 PM Comment Top Rantburg ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yank - I hear you, bro. I just have this little problem with lies and prevarication. I have never known how to lie nicely - nor to use the diplo-speak of partial truth. Call it a personality flaw and near-total lack of social skills. I know, I'm screwed - I'll never get elected to anything, but that's okay with me. Prolly why I eventually chose to be a programmer - where neither of those skills is of value, but accuracy and precision as well as maintaining a handle on the big picture are. Here in Rantburg, I hope it's allowed to call 'em like we see 'em - and this is the final sum from my up-close and waay-too-personal experiences with Islam. 8-) Posted by: ·com 2003-8-12 4:51:24 PM Comment Top Rantburg ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- De-humanizing your enemies is always a bad strategy. You'll end up underestimating them at the worst possible time. Some old Chinese guy told me that. He also said that it helps to know your own weaknesses and strengths, too. I know that this must sound very sacreligious, but when I think about Dar al Islam, I sometimes feel like Abraham bargaining with God over Sodom and Gomorrah. Only it won't be God smiting the Muslims, it'll be us. Switching from the religious to the secular, I once sat next to a psychiatrist on a long trip. She told me that what she does is de-program people from the crappy ideas their parents put in their heads. I have no idea how you deprogram so many people of so many bad ideas. Fear and utter defeat seem to be the only solutions. Hate so long as you fear, eh, Fred? Posted by: 11A5S 2003-8-12 7:12:14 PM Comment Top Rantburg ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [OT] And I am oh so sorry if I am demonizing the enemy or failing to attempt to persuade using softer, gentler, friendlier, language. Oh my. My bad. They're really good people just led astray - and I'm the bad guy for noticing. Yeah, I took a look back to a day earlier in the week when I posted a few comments early in my day and then began my visa-renewal ordeal to Burma. Tachiliek to be precise. And returned (Rantburg had rolled over to the next day) to find I had been rather skewered while gone for not being PC. Okay. I won't make that mistake again. And the zeros who think that their remote second-hand feel-good musings equate to or override my real world experiences can kiss my very hairy ass - you don't know WTF you're mewling about. I shoulda brought back that big thuggy-looking Burmese Colonel and sic'ed him on you - he'd do it for $100 in genuine USD, I'd wager. Take another swig of pablum and toddle off. Ahhhh. That feels better. [/OT] Posted by: .com 2003-8-16 10:52:49 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- PD: Perhaps then you should learn to parse an English sentence then. My point wasn't that you should be more PC. It was that when you dehumanize (not demonize) your enemy, he is much more likely to beat you. Not because dehumanizing is politically incorrect or wrong, but because it non-pragmatic. I then in a humorous way, paraphrased Sun Tzu who said that he who does't know his enemy or himself, will lose every battle. If you want to talk about about zeal how about this: I volunteered for a reserve tour in support of the current war on terror and served it out. In doing so, I lost my previous position at my company and now have half the responsibility that I had before. That's what my zeal led me to sacrifice. What sacrifice has your zeal prompted you to? I mean beside posting rants on the Internet and insulting folks. Don't you ever dare question my patriotism, my willingness to sacrifice to win this war, or my real world experience. Posted by: 11A5S 2003-8-17 12:28:39 AM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now back to the present: 1) Everyone has dehumanized their enemies during war since the beginning of time. Even if the Govt doesn't, the schmuck in the muck does. The US certainly has throughout its history - and with the advent of film, it reached new heights in WW-II - as I'm sure you well know. What you say is intellectual - and perhaps correct, but it isn't what actually happens. I doubt that words play any part in it. And, despite the Sun Tzu wisdom, we won every war we were allowed to win - which is to say all but one. I happened to have the misfortune to be in the one we weren't allowed to win - primarily due to political bungling, micromanagement, and gross mishandling of our military capabilities. I'll get over it when I die, I'm sure, but too many people went down, so I'm not over it yet. Sun Tzu's wisdom, though sage and wise, is an intellectualized exercise. Fine, but it doesn't happen that way. Shit, this is all irrelevant prattle, anyway. Moving on. ISLAM What's funny here is that all I did was characterize Islam as a pathogen. Every other word is drop-dead true and I have seen it and lived it. If you've lived in Saudi Arabia or Egypt or UAE and have different information, then feel free to post alternative views on Islam. THAT IS THE REAL-WORLD EXPERIENCE IN QUESTION. GOT IT? POST IT. 2) This is what set you off, I'm sure: "And the zeros who think that their remote second-hand feel-good musings equate to or override my real world experiences can kiss my very hairy ass - you don't know WTF you're mewling about." So, where is there any challenge to your patriotism? Parse it and tell me. I don't doubt your word in your last response, yet I fail to see the challenge of your zeal or patriotism. It's not there. I was talking about experience with Islam. What are you talking about? If you have first-hand experience, tell us all about it. Shoot my opinions down with knowledge, don't mischaracterize my words or intent so you can beat your chest. I thought much more highly of you than that - whether you believe it or not. You, on the other hand, think I am just an Internet ranter. Well, I'm in the right place, if that was the truth - are you? But that's not all I am... As for my willingness, I am no longer physically fit to serve. I won't pretend to have old war wounds which prevent it - I just got old (50's) and slow and fat. As for zeal and experience, I do have my scars and a shitload of memories, but I was one of the lucky ones and walked away when the clock chimed and time in ratland was up. My most vivid memory is that last week when I was so short I could dive off a dime - and my thoughts of never having to sleep in a puddle of sweat ever again. So I definitely empathize with the guys in Iraq - hotter there but lower humidity - prolly evens out at night. Multiple tours in Nam was not something I wanted to do. If that makes me a coward in your eyes, then knock yourself out, tough guy, if you were there, you were damned quiet back then, not the breast-banger you are today. I did the one pass - others were optional, we weren't accomplishing dick except piling up the bodies and bombing suspected truck parks, and I decided a year of it was enough. Carve me up, super patriot. I think this sucks because you apparently have thin skin on this topic. I don't know why - nor care any longer. That's your problem. My willingness is now moot, but don't YOU ever challenge MY patriotism or MY real world experience again without hard cold facts and relevant experience. This is Rantburg, and I am a citizen of it. I contribute as much real experience here as you do. I don't much care if you don't like me, but I know what I'm talking about - and stay off topics I don't know about. If I offended you, I'm sorry, but you had to make the offense up, as far as I can see. You owe me an apology for assuming I'm some wimpy snot-nosed dyspeptic ranter who's never served nor been anywhere, much less in the muck and shit. I've earned my citizenship, too. I'll use Gump's Standard Close: And that's all I have to say about that. |
| Posted by: .com 2003-8-17 4:39:11 AM |
| #5 I volunteered for a reserve tour in support of the current war on terror and served it out. In doing so, I lost my previous position at my company and now have half the responsibility that I had before. That's what my zeal led me to sacrifice. I think your sense of duty is commendable. I did not volunteer because I feel that if there is a national need, the fairest way of choosing the men to go would be via a draft lottery. This way everybody sacrifices, instead of just the most patriotic. My view is that the doves should be made to serve, just like the rest of us. Of course, if they're drafted, they can always move to Canada. |
| Posted by: Zhang Fei 2003-8-17 1:59:07 AM |
| #4 PD: Perhaps then you should learn to parse an English sentence then. My point wasn't that you should be more PC. It was that when you dehumanize (not demonize) your enemy, he is much more likely to beat you. Not because dehumanizing is politically incorrect or wrong, but because it non-pragmatic. I then in a humorous way, paraphrased Sun Tzu who said that he who does't know his enemy or himself, will lose every battle. If you want to talk about about zeal how about this: I volunteered for a reserve tour in support of the current war on terror and served it out. In doing so, I lost my previous position at my company and now have half the responsibility that I had before. That's what my zeal led me to sacrifice. What sacrifice has your zeal prompted you to? I mean beside posting rants on the Internet and insulting folks. Don't you ever dare question my patriotism, my willingness to sacrifice to win this war, or my real world experience. |
| Posted by: 11A5S 2003-8-17 12:28:39 AM |
| #3 Yep, what .com sez! |
| Posted by: Lucky 2003-8-17 12:21:55 AM |
| #2 Noralwizah @ Lee Yin Len Ai Lin @ Norfadilah Lee Dandand Surman @ Abu Yusof These are aliases. I believe @ stands for AKA. |
| Posted by: Zhang Fei 2003-8-16 11:38:49 PM |
| #1 Grrrrrrrr. You posted this just to piss me off, didn't ya, huh, didn't ya? You got me - it worked. ;-( Of course, there's another reason... later... Malaysia, headed by the Izzoid Wacko Asshat Meglomaniacal Dictator Mahathir, is trying to insert itself into the Hambali thing. They contributed The Devoted Wife⢠- and, as far as I can determine, that's it. An aider and abettor. The fact that they were allowed to take her (as a Malaysian citizen) means that whatever she could contribute is compromised or filtered or lost. Mistake. I fully believe Mahathir is involved and complicit in Izzoid terrorism - and that's why Malaysia has had no incidents on its soil. I'm sure that Thailand was compelled by treaty to release Noralwizah to them. I am equally sure that the US agents working with the Thais were very unhappy to see a potential information source escape to Malaysia - and it was an escape from the real WoT types. And this is the laugh of the day: "Najib said Hambali's arrest was the result of good co-operation between Malaysian and regional intelligence authorities, adding that the spirit of information sharing among the countries on terrorism should be applauded..." Why, it almost implies Malaysia was actually involved in the Thai operation that captured them. Had that been true, I have no doubt that they would have mysteriously fled just before the raid. The sort of thing that happens a lot in "joint" investigations with the Pakis, the Saudis, and others whose true allegiance is correctly in doubt. And isn't it cute that by some oddness, these Malaysian sisters and another terrorist have some sort of wacked out email addies for names. Noralwizah @ Lee Yin Len Ai Lin @ Norfadilah Lee Dandand Surman @ Abu Yusof Whassup with that? Second-best laugh of the day. Pfeh. Mahathir and Malaysia will get their due before it's over - or there will be a sea-change when they get an up-close and personal taste of what they've fostered. [OT] And I am oh so sorry if I am demonizing the enemy or failing to attempt to persuade using softer, gentler, friendlier, language. Oh my. My bad. They're really good people just led astray - and I'm the bad guy for noticing. Yeah, I took a look back to a day earlier in the week when I posted a few comments early in my day and then began my visa-renewal ordeal to Burma. Tachiliek to be precise. And returned (Rantburg had rolled over to the next day) to find I had been rather skewered while gone for not being PC. Okay. I won't make that mistake again. And the zeros who think that their remote second-hand feel-good musings equate to or override my real world experiences can kiss my very hairy ass - you don't know WTF you're mewling about. I shoulda brought back that big thuggy-looking Burmese Colonel and sic'ed him on you - he'd do it for $100 in genuine USD, I'd wager. Take another swig of pablum and toddle off. Ahhhh. That feels better. [/OT] |
| Posted by: .com 2003-8-16 10:52:49 PM |