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Sudan refuses to close down Hamas and Islamic Jihad offices
Today's Headlines
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-Short Attention Span Theater-
Follow-up - Concert Protesters Fight Police in Bahrain

Supposedly, yesterday’s article was about a siren in Bahrain being shut down. I got my hopes up that somebody had finally silenced the towers with the loadspeakers that play the wailing during Rammadan. That’s one tower that the Oregon fat guy can remove all the lugnuts from without a protest from this guy.

MANAMA, Bahrain -- Religious protesters chanting "No to unclean tourism" clashed with riot police outside an exhibition center where sultry Lebanese singer Nancy Ajram was performing.

The planned protest by about 150 to 300 Shiite Muslims, including women covered from head to toe, turned chaotic Wednesday when the protesters tried to prevent concertgoers from entering the exhibition center grounds. Riot police intervened, and the protesters threw rocks, set fires and smashed car windows.

"We don’t want such un-Islamic acts in our country and we’ll see to it that these things are not repeated," one protester said of the concert by Ajram, who is known for provocative videos where she wears tight, revealing clothing and dances seductively.

Although an Islamic state, Bahrain has a more relaxed climate than its stricter neighbors. Earlier this week, conservative lawmakers had proposed banning the pop concert, noting that the holy month of Ramadan was about to begin, but they were rebuffed by the moderate majority.

Police said several people were arrested and at least 13 cars were damaged in the melee Wednesday.

But while the riot continued outside, inside it was a typical concert, with young men and women dancing in the aisles and singing along with Ajram, who was dressed relatively conservatively in tight jeans, a light T-shirt and a black jacket. But did she wear socks? Could you see her ankles? It’s tha ankles that drive men wild.
Posted by: Super Hose || 10/23/2003 10:07:22 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [344 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Unclean tourism? Sign me up!
Posted by: tu3031 || 10/23/2003 22:19 Comments || Top||

#2  As the Orc said in the Two Towers movie (part 2 of Lord of the Rings):

"Look's like meat is back on the menu, boys!"
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 10/23/2003 22:36 Comments || Top||

Could someone post or e-mail me a link to the new Baghdad blogger,had it in my favorites.Had to do a go back and lost it.
Google does not come up with anything.

Posted by: Raptor || 10/23/2003 11:00:45 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [239 views] Top|| File under:

#1  If you mean Healing Iraq it's:


the guy's name is Zayed.
Posted by: g wiz || 10/23/2003 11:09 Comments || Top||

#2  The new blogger's name is Z e y a d, not Zayed.
Posted by: MommaBear || 10/23/2003 21:46 Comments || Top||

Citizens like calling it Rodeo -- veggie burgers won’t change that
Our friends at PETA strike again, or attempt to. Hope the ELF doesn’t burn down the town as a reprisal.
The good people of Rodeo -- who like animals as much as anyone else, especially for breakfast -- declared Tuesday that their precious heritage is worth more than $20,000 in veggie burgers.
"They can keep their veggie burgers,’’ said Doug Boyum. "I’m not going to sell out for a veggie burger. I’m not going to sell out, period.’’
The great veggie burger debate was the talk around town, after an animal rights group from Virginia sought to heat up its campaign against rodeo shows by suggesting that Rodeo change its name to something else. It offered the unincorporated town $20,000 worth of veggie burgers ("they’re high in fiber! ’’) to do it.
Yes, they’re high in fiber. They also taste like shit. Shit with no flavor.
"Our request may be unique, but it is sincere,’’ said Lisa Franzetta, a coordinator from People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, pleading her cause to the Contra Costa County Board of Supervisors. She got exactly three minutes before the board did what all good bureaucracies like to do - it referred the matter to a committee.
Bye, Lisa. We’ll...ummmmmmmm...let you know.
But the 8,717 people of Rodeo, tucked between San Pablo Bay and a bunch of refineries down the road, did not need a committee to know that their town is not for sale, especially not for chump change. The PETA offer works out to a half dozen veggie burgers per person.
What a deal!
At Flippy’s coffee shop in the middle of town, the entire citizenry seemed to be chewing over the offer, in addition to bacon, sausage and hamburgers. Owner Joe Cho said that changing the name would be "unreasonable" and his wife, Vickie, said the idea was "dumb."
"Why don’t they change the name of Rodeo Drive in Beverly Hills, if they want to change something?’’ she said. "We’re a small town. We like things the way they are."
"Rodeo is a nice name,’’ said Michael Wall. "If they change the name, I’d still call it Rodeo.’’
I think they should change it to Tasty Cow, or Beefeater.
The town was named in 1890 by a soon-to-be-bankrupt meatpacking company. PETA suggested the town call itself Unity, an idea about as popular as a refinery fire.
Unity? Kumbaya, losers.
"Rodeo has been Rodeo every since I was a kid,’’ said Michael’s father, Charles Wall. "If they take it away, there goes part of your life.’’ Not coincidentally, the veggie burger pitch coincides with the opening Friday of the annual Grand National Rodeo at the Cow Palace in Daly City. For years, PETA members have picketed the rodeo at the main gate, often finding themselves ignored.
Oh, I’ll bet they don’t like that.
The group said it was time to try something new, although its name-change ploy is growing whiskers of its own. In recent years, the group has offered $15,000 worth of veggie burgers to the towns of Hamburg and Fishkill in New York if they would change their names. Both said no, and PETA said it is running short of suitable outrageously named towns to offer veggie burgers to.
Stupid and cheap. Oh, well. The media does their publicity for them on the arm, so that’s a savings.
"They didn’t do it for $15,000, so we decided to up the ante,’’ said PETA protest director Bob Chorush. "But we’re not trying to buy the town. We’re just trying to make a point.’’
What’s the PETA Protest Director job pay, Bob?
Down the street from Flippy’s, at the Rodeo Bait and Taxidermy store, animals are popular, too. On the wall over the counter, a sign proclaimed that bass fishing is good right now at the town pier and that the Bait of the Month is pile worms, for $6.50 a dozen. Owner Harmit Singh said he treats his worms ethically. He also said that changing the town name would be "stupid.’’
He treats his worms "ethically". Oh, thank God for that!!!
"Why change it? Rodeo is a good name," he said. "If you change it, everyone has to pay money for new signs and new business cards and everything else.’’
But, Harmit? Veggie burgers! Six of them! For EVERYBODY!
One of his customers, with a tackle box under his arm, said it would take more than a few veggie burgers to get the ball rolling. "They can keep the stupid veggie burgers,’’ he said. "A bunch of people from Virginia can’t just come to town and wave around a few veggie burgers and think they own the place.’’
Yes. Yes we do. These bumpkins don’t realize how noble we are. Let’s get outta here.
Posted by: tu3031 || 10/23/2003 10:55:04 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [245 views] Top|| File under:

#1  PETA members have picketed the rodeo at the main gate, often finding themselves ignored.

They're lucky to be ignored. Rodeo folk are friendly...... but very tough. Come to think of it, maybe that's why they don't picket the performers entrance.
Posted by: Shipman || 10/23/2003 11:06 Comments || Top||

#2  Tenderloin, CA. Has a nice ring to it.
Or Veal City. Or Cheese Burger Flats.
Posted by: BH || 10/23/2003 11:21 Comments || Top||

#3  What they need is some really some town. I drove through Fifty Six, AR. There couldn't be more than 20 folks there. They should have all the PETA members quit their current jobs and start to live in Fifty Six. IF they did, one day they could VOTE to change the name of the very small town.

I really hope the folks at PETA don't follow through with that idea. The poor folks at Fifty Six would hunt me down.
Posted by: Anonymous || 10/23/2003 11:36 Comments || Top||

#4  Hey, let's suggest Reno change its name to Big Game! How about changing Evergreen, Colorado, Elk City? And while we're at it, let's change New York to Hamburgerville! We can play these games too, with about equal results, and for a lot less money.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 10/23/2003 11:36 Comments || Top||

#5  If I'm Rodeo, I ask PETA for the 20 gr in cash and then change the name of the town to Strangled Lamb or Dead Buffalo Corpses. The new town seal might be kind of unpleasant to look at but money's tight these days and it's not good government to turn down free jack.
Posted by: Christopher Johnson || 10/23/2003 12:34 Comments || Top||

#6  Veggie Burgers?! How I wasn't even aware they had cash value.
Posted by: Charles || 10/23/2003 12:41 Comments || Top||

#7  Am I the only one that gets hungry for a steak after I read a PETA article? Well I am off to Sizzler for lunch! :-)
Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) || 10/23/2003 13:02 Comments || Top||

#8  Too bad that Rush is not on the air just now. He could have a lotta fun with PETA on this one.

AP, is it true that Alaska also has a PETA org.--People Eating Tasty Animals?

LOL at BH's choices for alternate names.
Posted by: Gasse Katze || 10/23/2003 13:15 Comments || Top||

#9  Gasse Katze---Yes, we see that PETA bumper sticker on lots of vehicles in Alaska, mainly pickup trucks. LOL! People Eating Tasty Animals.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 10/23/2003 13:29 Comments || Top||

#10  There is a price for which the people of Rodeo would sell out...
Last I saw, it would be about $150,000 per person.
Posted by: Dishman || 10/23/2003 13:44 Comments || Top||

#11  I just found out there's a city in Germany that's also called Hamburg.It's just awful,isn't it?I'll send the mayor an e-mail - they should change the name to Veggieburg!
Posted by: El Id || 10/23/2003 15:12 Comments || Top||

#12  And Frankfurt should call itself TofuTown...
Posted by: Seafarious || 10/23/2003 16:12 Comments || Top||

#13  When we were kids we used to eat tofu from time to time. We called it toad-food. Being a pisces and an Alaska resident, I like fish. PETA seems to have more money than brains when it picks on Rodeo, CA. Bloody bandwidth burners.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 10/23/2003 17:04 Comments || Top||

#14  Rodeo is just up the road to Sacremento from Berkley. Now, would anyone like to take a bet on what the Contra Costa county commissioners will eventually end up doing? When I lived in the Bay Area they tried to change the name of the county during the Iran-Contra boohaha. What makes you think these left-coasters won't do the "contra-ry"???
Posted by: Jack is Back! || 10/23/2003 18:00 Comments || Top||

#15  How about changing it to 'Clubbed Seal, CA'......
Posted by: CrazyFool || 10/23/2003 19:14 Comments || Top||

#16  My own animal companion, Roswell the Atomic Poodle, declares that the PETA-heads are a direct threat to his existence since he is 13 years old and weighs about 6 pounds, and would therefore have a very tough time feeding himself if meat-processing were prohibited. Personally, I think the little moocher is too lazy to catch ground squirrels (hope he doesn't log on here, poodles are smart).

Actually, I think PETA does goofy stuff like this just to look, well, goofy; and therefore harmless. Goofy they are, harmless they are not. PETA will boast of their ties to ALF terrorists out one side of their mouths, and deny it out the other. They are not shy about excusing and even gleefully celebrating various ALF outrages. They are basically playing Sinn Fein to ALF's IRA.
Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy || 10/23/2003 19:16 Comments || Top||

Strong geomagnetic storm expected to hit Earth
No tinfoil umbrellas required, folks.
A strong geomagnetic storm is expected to hit Earth on Friday with the potential to affect electrical grids and satellite communications. One of the largest sunspot clusters in years developed over the past three days and produced a coronal mass ejection, similar to a solar flare, at 7am GMT on Wednesday, forecasters at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration said. The disturbance is expected to produce a geomagnetic storm rated G3. A G5 storm is the strongest. A second sunspot cluster not yet visible from Earth could produce more geomagnetic storms in the next two weeks, NOAA said.
One little piece of information left out in the report: what time’s it gonna hit, and therefore who’s gonna get fried?!
Posted by: Bulldog || 10/23/2003 8:27:13 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [247 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Wonder where the spacestation will be and how long does a storm last? Long enuf for an orbit?
Posted by: Shipman || 10/23/2003 9:01 Comments || Top||

#2  "Coronal mass ejection"? Is that like solar diarrhea?
Posted by: Dar || 10/23/2003 9:53 Comments || Top||

#3  Can't wait for Al Qaeda to claim credit for this storm.
Posted by: Daniel King || 10/23/2003 10:02 Comments || Top||

#4  Coronal mass ejection is when a prominence pinches and blows up, blasting part of the surface layer out into space. Lots of charged particles following the prompt radiation (mostly X-ray and Gamma). These things make a thermo-nuke look like a popgun.

They're usually directional, though. Which way is this'un headed?
Posted by: mojo || 10/23/2003 11:19 Comments || Top||

#5  Somehow, it must be the fault of the Jooos.
Posted by: B || 10/23/2003 11:28 Comments || Top||

#6  Well, it says it could hit Earth Friday. Solar flares, coronal mass ejections, etc., travel slower than light, and can take up to ten days to reach earth. Most travel faster than that, and reach in 18 to 36 hours. They can last for as long as two days, depending on the size, density, speed, and what lies in between - such as Venus, Mercury, or our moon. According to the article on "Space News", it's supposed to reach Earth at midday, tomorrow. It should make for some interesting Aurora Borealis displays, possibly seen as far south as New York and Montana.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 10/23/2003 11:56 Comments || Top||

#7  Check out http://www.spaceweather.com/ for all your space weather reporting needs.

"SOLAR EXPLOSIONS: Solar activity is high. An intense X5-class solar flare erupted today (Oct. 23rd at 8:35 UT) from sunspot 486 near the sun's southeastern limb. The explosion hurled a coronal mass ejection (CME) into space. See the movie. Although the CME was not Earth-directed, it could deliver a glancing blow to our planet's magnetic field as early as Oct 24th (although the 25th is more likely)..."
Posted by: Dave || 10/23/2003 12:02 Comments || Top||

#8  Space.com says midday tomorrow (Eastern time, I assume, since they mention that time zone elsewhere in the story).
Posted by: Kathy K || 10/23/2003 12:11 Comments || Top||

#9  This brings to question how much radiation will leak through our atmosphere and if the ISP will be fried to a crisp.
Posted by: Charles || 10/23/2003 12:45 Comments || Top||

#10  It will hit Mecca first.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 10/23/2003 13:31 Comments || Top||

#11  I wouldn't want to be standing in the yard of a power sub-station when the EMP arrives, let's put it that way.
Posted by: mojo || 10/23/2003 14:20 Comments || Top||

#12  Should we...RUN FOR OUR LIVES!!!
Oh, wait. Where we gonna go?
Posted by: tu3031 || 10/23/2003 16:49 Comments || Top||

#13  tu3031---before we run in panic for our lives, be sure to secure all classified material.....
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 10/23/2003 17:47 Comments || Top||

16 Taliban Arrested in Afghanistan Sweep
Sixteen Taliban have been arrested in southern Afghanistan in a sweep by 1,000 Afghan fighters and more than 300 U.S.-led coalition troops hunting for leaders of the former regime. Tanks and helicopters from the anti-terror coalition are also deployed in the search in the districts of Dai Chopan, Atghar, Shinkay and Arghandab, said Commander Habibullah Jan. There were no known casualties on either side, he said. The operation began six days ago, Jan said. The 16 captives were being held in Kandahar prison. Local officials have claimed that the same operation over the weekend also netted a senior Taliban commander, Mullah Janan, along with eight of his accomplices. However, the U.S. military has said Janan was captured near Deh Rawod in the central province of Uruzgan. "We are trying to capture other big Taliban figures," Jan said of the continuing operations.
That would be a fine idea. We'll be looking forward to seeing Mullah Omar...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 10/23/2003 15:18 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [367 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Are we going to auction off the motorcycles like Clint Eastwood did in Every Which Way but Loose?
Posted by: Super Hose || 10/23/2003 21:08 Comments || Top||

#2  I wonder if they've bribed the warden and started digging the tunnel yet...
Posted by: tu3031 || 10/23/2003 21:46 Comments || Top||

Saudi authorities warn against further demonstrations
Saudi authorities have warned against further demonstrations following a rare rally in Riyadh called by an exiled dissident group. Protests "violate existing (rules) and anyone who takes part in them will be subjected to deterrent punishment meted out by the (Islamic) court," Thursday's newspapers quoted Interior Minister Prince Nayef bin Abdul Aziz as saying.
Does that mean they're gonna cut off their heads?
The internal security chief issued his reminder that demonstrations are outlawed in the kingdom on Wednesday, shortly before his ministry said that 83 of the people arrested at last week's rally, including three women, were still in custody and would appear in court. "Authorities arrested 271 people, of whom 188 were freed after proving that they had been drawn into the crowd and acted out of curiosity," said a ministry spokesman. Hundreds took part in the protest called by the London-based Movement for Islamic Reform to denounce the arrest of dissidents. The group has called for more demonstrations in Riyadh and other parts of the country on Thursday afternoon. Another warning came from the head of the kingdom's Higher Judiciary Council, Sheikh Saleh bin Mohammad al-Luhaidan, who told the daily Okaz in remarks published Thursday that demonstrations were "demagogic" and authorities were duty-bound to "stand up firmly" to such activities. Calls for demonstrations and sit-ins "amount to calls for strife, and to an attempt to spread vice and undermine security," he said.
"Yeah. You got any idea the kind of lewd conduct goes on at these things? It'd curl your moustache!"
In a clear reference to the dissident group's call for protesters to gather at mosques Thursday, Luhaidan added: "Using mosques as a starting point for chaos and demagogic rallies means diverting them to pursuits which they are not supposed to get into." A Saudi intellectual, requesting anonymity, told AFP Thursday that London-based dissident Saad al-Faqih, who heads the Movement for Islamic Reform in Arabia, had struck a chord with many people because he was using his radio station to tackle issues of concern to ordinary citizens. "While the language he uses in his attacks on authorities can only be described as cheap, the fact is that his focus on people's daily problems rings a bell with many, if only as a way of letting off steam," he said.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 10/23/2003 13:27 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [244 views] Top|| File under:

"Using mosques as a starting point for chaos and demagogic rallies means diverting them to pursuits which they are not supposed to get into."

Just like Finsbury Park, huh?
Posted by: Old Grouch || 10/23/2003 17:57 Comments || Top||

Riyadh tightens grip on charities
The Saudi government has banned fund-raising in schools and through the media in fresh moves to regulate the work of charities, which have faced Western accusations of funding terrorism. The Education Ministry has ordered an end to the collection of donations for charities in all government schools. This follows a government ban on fund-raising in markets and shopping malls as part of a series of measures aimed at "monitoring the flow of money and preventing funds from reaching activities described as terrorist," it said. The Ministry of Islamic affairs and religious endowments had banned Islamic preaching (daawa) bodies from running advertisements in the media to solicit donations. "The decision is part of a plan designed to limit the violations that occur during fund-raising for welfare projects," a ministry source told the paper. Saudi Arabia boasts more than 230 non-profit societies which raise about one billion riyals ($267 million) annually.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 10/23/2003 13:18 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [252 views] Top|| File under:

CBK to 'follow' flow of charity funds abroad
Kuwait's Central Bank has been assigned the task of approving and monitoring any transfer of funds overseas by Islamic charities as part of measures to fight terror funding. "Only five charity organizations are allowed to transfer money abroad, but through the Central Bank," acting undersecretary at the Ministry of Social Affairs and Labour Mohammad Al-Kandari told a press conference. All these charities are run by Islamic groups in Kuwait. The new measure has been taken after the ministry "temporarily" stopped all charities from transferring funds abroad in a bid to regulate their operations. Most of the Kuwaiti funds are being distributed under the direct supervision of the country's diplomatic missions abroad, Kandari added. "We intend to make the distribution of funds totally controlled by Kuwaiti embassies. We are working towards this end," he added. Kuwaiti charities send tens of millions of dollars in donations annually to dozens of Muslim countries and Muslim minorities around the world. After the Sept 11, 2001 attacks, the United States accused some Islamic charities in Arab countries of funding terrorism, but they denied the charges saying their donations are spent on humanitarian causes.
"Arms and ammunition can be very humanitarian..."
Domestically, Kuwait has cracked down on illegal fund-raising operations, said Nasser Al-Ammar, head of Charity Societies Department. The new measures come less than three weeks after a delegation from the US Treasury Department and a team from the International Monetary Fund discussed with Kuwaiti officials means to stop terrorism funding. Kuwait's main Islamic societies have denied involvement in funding terror groups and have cooperated with government measures to control fund-raising operations.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 10/23/2003 13:15 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [258 views] Top|| File under:

Yemen holds al-Qaeda suspect
YEMENI authorities have arrested a Saudi suspected of being a member of the Al-Qaeda terrorist network who entered Yemen secretly, a security official said today. Ghanem al-Malki was arrested in the border outpost of Hardh after entering Yemen illegally with the help of two Yemenis. Yemen's interior ministry ordered Malki and the two Yemenis, who could be imprisoned for a year, to be taken to the capital where they will appear before a judge.
"Al-Malki, is it? What kinda name is that? Y'ain't from around here, are yew?"
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 10/23/2003 12:18 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [243 views] Top|| File under:

Gallows-way expelled from Labour Party,! Parliament to follow?
The guy who had those sweetheart deals with Sammy.
LONDON (Reuters) - Viqi Shesh George Galloway, who denounced U.S. President George W. Bush and Prime Minister Tony Blair as "wolves" during the Iraq war, has been expelled from the Labour Party.
"And the horse you rode in on, too!"
Galloway, member of parliament for Glasgow Kelvin in Scotland, confirmed his expulsion as he emerged from a party hearing in London on Thursday and condemned the tribunal as a "kangaroo court".
So long, traitor
Posted by: Atrus || 10/23/2003 11:51:41 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [243 views] Top|| File under:

#1  good for Labour!
Posted by: liberalhawk || 10/23/2003 13:07 Comments || Top||

#2  Hop your commie ass back up to Scotland, pal.
Posted by: mojo || 10/23/2003 14:23 Comments || Top||

#3  Check out Mark Steyn for Georgeous George's career plans:

Posted by: Mercutio || 10/23/2003 15:52 Comments || Top||

#4  Doesn't he have some palatial villa on the coast of Portugal? Being Saddam's butt boy must've paid pretty good. Too bad that's over, huh, George?
And what's up with that little Iraqi girl you were supposed to be taking care of? Anybody?
Posted by: tu3031 || 10/23/2003 16:57 Comments || Top||

#5  Hasta la vista, Slimey!
Posted by: Bulldog || 10/23/2003 18:13 Comments || Top||

#6  "Condemned the tribunal as a kangaroo court."

Is this a change of heart for Galloway? I mean, he didn't have a problem with Saddam's very busy kangaroo courts. Perhaps he only respects kangaroo courts that can enforce their edicts with plastic shredders and judicial rape.
Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy || 10/23/2003 19:25 Comments || Top||

Down Under
Pres. Bush heckled during speech to Aussie parliament
Not suprisngly a couple of dorks decided to try to make a name for themselves yesterday by interrupting President Bush’s address to the Australian parliament. Their gripe? You guessed it, that we removed Saddam Hussein. (EFL)
As thousands of anti-war demonstrators protested outside Parliament, President Bush thanked Australia on Thursday for sending troops to Iraq and Afghanistan to stand and fight alongside the United States "instead of wishing and waiting while tragedy drew closer." Bush personally saluted Prime Minister John Howard as "a leader of exceptional courage" for not buckling earlier this year to his nation’s largest peace marches since the Vietnam War. Instead, Howard sent 2,000 troops to Iraq.

Forty-one opposition lawmakers signed a letter criticizing Bush’s war decision, saying the war was conducted on the basis of a clear and present danger in Iraq that did not exist. But Bush shot back in his speech that "Saddam Hussein’s regime is gone and no one should mourn its passing." Outside Parliament, thousands of demonstrators banged drums and shouted at the president from security lines 100 yards away from where Bush entered. Other protesters jostled with security officials outside the U.S. embassy compound where Bush stayed overnight. Inside Parliament, two Green Party senators shouted war protests at Bush during his speech and were ordered removed, but refused to go. One of them, maverick Sen. Bob Brown, interrupted Bush to say "we are not a sheriff" — a reference to Bush’s recent description of Howard. Bush smiled during the interruptions and said, "I love free speech."
Posted by: g wiz || 10/23/2003 12:29:00 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [361 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Whether you like Dubya's politics or not, the man has class and knows how to handle himself.
Posted by: Steve White || 10/23/2003 0:48 Comments || Top||

#2  Bush smiled during the interruptions and said, "I love free speech."

Bush likes seeing them make idiots out of themselves. Perhaps even more than we do.
Posted by: Charles || 10/23/2003 1:40 Comments || Top||

#3  It's pretty obvious that the Watermelons (green outside, red inside) have no use for free speech themselves, except when it's their own. The Green Party is the political arm of genocidal eco-fascism, just as Greenpeace is its elite commando force, and most of Hollywood is its propaganda ministry. This whole thing, of course, is a scam; a power-seeking totalitarian cult whose members know little and care less about the actual environment and nature itself.
Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy || 10/23/2003 3:23 Comments || Top||

#4  It's pretty obvious that the Watermelons (green outside, red inside) have no use for free speech themselves, except when it's their own.

-AC hits the nail on the head. These schleps pop off about loving the 1st Amendment until a conservative tries to give their opinion in a pseudo-open forum such as on one of our nation's college campuses. I've witnessed how intolerant they are - very abusive behavior from such peace loving, in touch w/nature hippies. Too bad the Protest Warrior guys couldn't of been there in Aussie-land to clown on them.
Posted by: Jarhead || 10/23/2003 6:11 Comments || Top||

#5  I listened to the idiot on the BBC last night and the watermelon Senator had two gripes: The detention of two Aussie/Taliban/Terrorists at Gitmo and that Bush called Aussie the new 'Sheriff' in Asia. Brown (who is Green) didn't like the Cowboy/Sheriff reference, even if it was meant as a compliment. The host of the show argued with him about it being in Australia’s security interest to be viewed as a Sheriff, but he was having none of that. He sounded just like Howard Dean!
Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) || 10/23/2003 10:33 Comments || Top||

#6  Why is it that the folks that shout out during speaches, and debates, can't seem to speak clearly. I realize they may not have a microphone, perhaps its not even planned, but a pithy statement that everyone can understand is a lot better than an unintelligable verbal farts.
Posted by: Yank || 10/23/2003 12:45 Comments || Top||

#7  Being heckled in Austrailian must be quite an experience. Were there any subtitles?

Don't take it too seriously; parlimentary type governments do this as a matter of standard practice.
Posted by: Mercutio || 10/23/2003 14:37 Comments || Top||

#8  It was interesting to watch. Lots of here, heres instead of the constant clapping you get in the US. I do think it shows a lack of class to heckle a foreign leader speaking in your Parliament.
Posted by: Yank || 10/23/2003 15:15 Comments || Top||

#9  Well, Mercutio, I wonder how seriously Greeny blackshirts would take it if somebody tried to shout down one of their speakers? Actually, we don't have to wonder: Threats and intimidation are a calculated strategy in all of their public demonstrations, all of them. We see these fascists threaten people who simply point cameras at them and GreenPiss itself maintains an elite corps of "adventure-sport" enforcer-thugs at its London headquarters for that very purpose. Generous support from the Turner and Ford foundations allows these blackshirts to roam the world, providing muscle wherever anti-luddite dissent shows its head, and media collaboration allows them to get away scot-free with anything short of murder (and that is only a matter of time).
Working from the other end, Greenies can count on collaborators in the media to portray their droning authoritarian mobs as peaceful flower-children and concerned soccer-moms no matter how a confrontation originates or goes down.
Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy || 10/23/2003 15:33 Comments || Top||

#10  So Atomic? What do you want to do? Hail them up before the Belgian International Court on a charge of felony bad manners? Delcare the Green Party to be terrorists and slap them silly with 12 oz porterhouse steaks? Better to save your outrage for a worthy target, not ill-mannered buffoons.
Posted by: Mercutio || 10/23/2003 17:13 Comments || Top||

#11  No, I will settle for continuing to inform the public about the real nature of these groups. BTW, criticising and exposing them like this is not some kind of unlawful oppression, much as they and their apologists are committed to the Stalinist tactic of representing it as such.
Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy || 10/23/2003 18:39 Comments || Top||

#12  There was an article in the local Fort Wayne paper about how politicians use their hands during speeches. As a tidbit the writer included that Nelson Rockefeller once flipped a demonstrator off for flipping him off. Nelson pointed out that it was bad manners to make that type of gesture to the Vice President. I wasn't much of a fan of the Ford administration, but you got to hand it to a guy that old that maintains his feistiness.
Posted by: Super Hose || 10/23/2003 21:23 Comments || Top||

#13  Jarhead, it might come as a surprise to you but the 1st amendment doesn't extend beyond the US, weird huh?

As for those making watermelon jokes, today the chinese president is addressing the Australian parliament and the same senators are protesting about Tibet and political prisoners in china, weird huh?

Having said all that, I don't particularly like the greens that much but at least I don't make uninformed comments

Also, John Howard IS and arselicker, as has been stated publicly, I could hear sucking noises all the way here
Posted by: Igs || 10/23/2003 23:18 Comments || Top||

#14  And you wonder why I complained so much about bloody bob brown? now he's preening himself on making the international news, crowing about how important he is, and how important it is to stand up to America in parliament he's the only voice of the ppl yak yak yak.

But notice he had NO plans to interrupt the Chinese President!!! And even if he had , he is now bleating about how Chinese secret service agents blocked his 'guests' from the public gallery and how he is being barred from sitting in parliament on that day.

That makes a change from the free speech encouraged by Bush, doesn't it. Do you think that point will indent Brown's thick skull?

And I was at Jabiluka with Kerry Nettle. She is a moron. They protested a nuclear mine being built there but didn't give a crap when cane toads hit this year devestating the native fauna.

hypocrits and idiots, supporting dictators. They have shamed this country.

I apologise on behalf of all Australians to President Bush for their rudeness. THey don't reflect the views of the majority.

ps: i've been absent as i've found a new and exciting way to spend my time - with a really EXCELLENT man who I reckon i'm gonna marry one day.
Posted by: Anon1 || 10/24/2003 0:58 Comments || Top||

#15  For your reference, Igs, The Greens (who think they are more important than any other elected representative and should be running the show and dictating debate) had NO plans to rudely interrupt the Chinese President's address to Parliament.

As stated yesterday by Bob Poo-Brown, they only planned to wear Tibetan flags on their lapels.

Yes, a silent and respectful protest

Unlike the one they made to President Bush.

Unlike the USA, China has an APPALLING human rights record, no free speech, no democracy,
Posted by: Anon1 || 10/24/2003 1:01 Comments || Top||

#16  Anon, not quite sure which majority you are referring to, the majority of ppl I know don't share your sentiments.

Personally I don't have much time for the greens and it's hard to argue that China doesn't have a shocking human rights record. Then again, the US does have a habit of supporting regimes with fairly dubious human rights records to advance it's foreign policy/economic interests, guilt by association.
Posted by: Igs || 10/24/2003 1:25 Comments || Top||

#17  --Anon, not quite sure which majority you are referring to, the majority of ppl I know don't share your sentiments.--

How could anyone vote for Nixon? None of the people I know did.

Maybe you should expand your circle of acquaintances, Igs.
Posted by: Anonymous || 10/24/2003 1:57 Comments || Top||

#18  I'm happy with my circle of acquaintances thanx.

I didn't vote for Nixon either, then again I'm not in the US.

I was merely pointing out that some people use the 'majority' description rather too liberally, same applies to the 'silent majority' etc
Posted by: Igs || 10/24/2003 2:06 Comments || Top||

Swedish Police Arrest Terror Suspect
Swedish police have arrested a man investigated in an alleged conspiracy to open a terrorist training camp in the United States in 1999. Oussama Kassir, a 37-year-old Swedish citizen, was charged with planning a terrorist crime, prosecutor Agneta Hilding Qvarnstroem told Swedish media. Kassir was the first person arrested under a new Swedish terrorism law enacted in June which calls for harsher punishments if it can be proven that a crime was an act of terrorism. Kassir, a native of Lebanon, was referenced, but not named or charged, in a U.S. federal indictment issued by a grand jury in Seattle in September 2002. That indictment accused James Ujaama of trying to set up an al-Qaida-linked terrorist training camp in Oregon in the northwestern United States. Ujaama showed the ranch to two emissaries of Abu Hamza al-Masri, a radical London cleric. One of those was Kassir, who identified himself as being employed by Osama bin Laden as a hit man.
"Yeah. Just t'ink of me as Luca Brasi wit' a turban..."
But in an interview with The Seattle Times newspaper last year, Kassir denied being a gunman for the group. "I am not the hit man of Osama bin Laden," the U.S. newspaper quoted him as saying. "I am a supporter. ... I love al-Qaida. I love Osama bin Laden." Kassir moved to Sweden in 1984 and became a citizen in 1989. He spent several months in prison in 1998 for assaulting an officer and drug possession.
A real asset to his adopted homeland...
Magnus Ranstorp, director of the Center for the Study of Terrorism and Political Violence at St. Andrews University in Scotland, said it is likely that the arrest is connected to Ujaama case. "I think we're dealing with mercenary activities, rather than some hard-core extremist," Ranstorp said. "But the only ones who know for sure are the police."
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 10/23/2003 15:28 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [303 views] Top|| File under:

EU elite are filthy pigs, says Bossi
The European Union’s elite are determined to destroy Europe’s Christian heritage, Italy’s reform minister, Umberto Bossi said yesterday.
That is (forgive me) gospel truth, but you don’t normally hear anyone from EUrabia talking about it.
He described the elite as "filthy pigs" who wanted to "make paedophilia as easy as possible".
I’m not actually sure what he’s talking about here, but if it insults the French and those who wish they were French (Belgians and Democrats), then I’m all for it. You go Bossi!

Mr Bossi, leader of the Northern League (The guys that wanted to split the northern (profitable) portion of Italy from the southern (welfare state) portion. I’m going to go out on a limb here and bet that they aren’t big fans of the EU), said Brussels was "transforming vices into virtues" and "advancing the cause of atheism every day". He denounced the European arrest warrant as a step towards "dictatorship, deportation, and terror, instilling fear in the people, a crime in itself". It would lead to a Stalinist regime "multiplied by 25".
True, true, and, oh yeah, true.
One day Italian citizens would be locked up on the orders of Turkish judges not a happy thought, he told Il Giornale newspaper, which is owned by the family of the Italian prime minister, Silvio Berlusconi. He added that the euro was a "total flop", its inflationary effects costing ordinary people "a fortune" in lost purchasing power.

This is a good sign that the EU is begining to fray at the edges.... or maybe just at the fringes, but either way this guy hasn’t said anything that isn’t factual. Well, I’m not sure that the Belgians are child molesters -- but I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt!
Posted by: || 10/23/2003 12:28:46 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [313 views] Top|| File under:

#1  The child molesters are around Albania and Czechoslovakia. It's a major underground business in that region, and they sell over seas to people( Sick f*cks ) here in the US. That's what he's talking about.

The European arrest warrent is for him, isn't it?
Posted by: Charles || 10/23/2003 12:50 Comments || Top||

#2  You're thinking of Prime Minister Berlusconi of the Italian Reform Party. Under the spooky, unstable, and (to the American mind anyhow) unfathomably complex system of Italian Parliamentary democracy, the Northern League and the Reform Party are currently running Italy under a "power sharing" arrangement. Which, considering that both parties are a little nutty, should sound bad.... until you consider the other Italian parties. Like the Communist one.
Posted by: Secret Master || 10/23/2003 13:19 Comments || Top||

#3  I believe Belgium was the site of a major child kidnapping/slavery/pornography ring that was strangely covered up/protected by the government.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 10/23/2003 13:29 Comments || Top||

#4  Yup, it was.
Posted by: rkb || 10/23/2003 14:33 Comments || Top||

#5  The demographics of the Euro-elite have changed a great deal over the last few hundred years, but several things have remained the same:
On the record, the Euro ruling class is probably the most ruthless and devious large group of people that has ever existed. The Congo genocide, the two world wars, the rise of statist totalitarianism, and, now, the profitability of Islamo-fascist collaborationism, can all be laid solidly at the feet of the bourgeois-derived pseudo-intelligentsia that succeeded the hereditary aristocracy sometime in the late 19th century, and whose linear descendants populate the present-day Euro-state ruling class.
Another constant, one that stretches back to remote antiquity, is the exploitation and incitement of traditional peasant bigotry for political ends. The specific targets change; the "yellow peril", Masons, and "the Jews" in the past, Americans and "the Jews" today; but the ugly authoritarian spirit remains the same.
It might well have originated in the millenia long race wars of the Paleolithic era, when the ancestors of today's Euros fought the Neanderthaler enemy to extinction.
Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy || 10/23/2003 15:50 Comments || Top||

#6  I don't suppose that the leaders of the Franco-Aryan Axis in Brussels expected the Italians, of all people, to get up on their hind-legs and bite back.
One of the problems with relying on prejudice and bigotry to drive the masses is that the instigators themselves can start believing it, and will therefore be blindsided when its predictions turn out to be inaccurate.
The leaders of the previous Reich, A. Hitler and H. Goering, made the same kind of mistake. They did not expect much from the soft, decadent, and racially corrupt Americans, and planned their war strategy accordingly. Both lived to regret it, though not for long.
Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy || 10/23/2003 15:58 Comments || Top||

#7  "Either way this guy hasn’t said anything that isn’t factual"

Let us hope that you meant to write "hasn't said anything that is sane".

"I’m not actually sure what he’s talking about here,"

'Pigs' is Bossi's preferred way of referring to homosexuals so it's possible that he was accusing the European "elite" of being pro-gay rights. (Which they hopefully are IMAO.)

The whole "destroying the christian heritage of europe" rhetoric and the random references to paedophilia seem to me to confirm that guess of mine.

Btw, Let's mention some more things that Bossi, this beloved fascist of all y'all has done.


Bossi also attacked the mayor of Rome, centre-left politician Francesco Rutelli, for adopting a South American child. "He should have a more solid family, with children whose origin are certain," Bossi said.


You go Bossi, you racist bigoted little creep of a man. You'll find many similarly psychotic individuals here at Rantburg, many people eager to urge you on, as long as you rant against the EU. You won't be asked to explain your reasoning, just rant away, be imaginative with your insults and conspiracy theories. As long as you rant against the JewsEU, people here will always say that you are only speaking facts.

In short, original poster? Fuck you. Your beloved pal Bossi is all in favour of deportation and terror as long as they are aimed toward the people he doesn't like. Which mainly involves foreigners.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 10/23/2003 19:24 Comments || Top||

#8  I believe Belgium was the site...

I read that many Belgians were upset over the complacency of their officials and organized several protest marches.

Source:20,000 people marched through Bruessels on 14 February 1998, to express anger at Belgium’s lack of policy reform in the wake of a child molestation case. (Robert Wielaard, "20,000 Rally Against Belgian Gov’t," Associated Press, 15 February 1998)
Posted by: Adriane || 10/23/2003 19:31 Comments || Top||

#9  Belgium was the home of Mark Dutroux, a child killer and Pedophile. Just do a google search on him and you will find out more than you ever wanted to know about Belgium.
Posted by: Paul Moloney || 10/23/2003 19:50 Comments || Top||

#10  Hi Mr. Katsaris! My next door neighbors are Mr. & Mrs. Koikos, they speak English damn near as well as you do.... they fled during the Civil War. They said it was very bad. They like my dawg Hatfield. So you got plenty of slack with this psyco Rantburger. Damn it Hatfield! Get away from the machete! Bad dawg! BTW come on over and we'll go to Tarpon Springs and get some serious seafood. Bad Dawg! Bad Hatfield! Gotta go the buzzing getting worse.
Posted by: Shipman || 10/23/2003 19:53 Comments || Top||

#11  Hmm... if they are living in America (or the UK? Where do you live?) for almost 60 years, then I guess saying that I speak better than them must be a compliment.

Thanks. I guess.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 10/23/2003 20:13 Comments || Top||

#12  God Aris, your writing is so insufferably vain. If you are so above the rest of the rantburgers, why do you demean yourself by coming here?
Posted by: B || 10/23/2003 22:43 Comments || Top||

#13  Masochism.

And I can still enjoy Rantburg as a collection of articles about the "War on Terror", ignoring the often depraved commentary that accompany them.

And on matters that don't concern the EU there's the occasional half-decent discussion. (On matters that concern it... Well, you people hate the EU with as much braindead hatred as the Communist Party of Greece hates both the EU and the US. And using pretty much the same arguments. Actually scratch that, you are using even more braindead arguments. Even the communists haven't yet accused the EU of wanting to make paedophilia as easy as possible. Factual didn't you call it, and none of the rest of you cared to dispute this "factual" comment? And that bastard, Atomic Conspiracy, who used the phrase "Franco-Aryan" axis... Nobody cared about *that* insult either, did you?)

Screw you all. And go on cheering the racist fascists with whom you share those mutual hatreds.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 10/23/2003 23:28 Comments || Top||

#14  Not going to join in the depraved commentary on the article below this one, Aris?
Posted by: Bulldog || 10/24/2003 4:33 Comments || Top||

#15  No, I'm not. Any particular reason that I should?

Other than the nationalistic madness you hold that demands I am responsible for the actions of my whole ethnic group?
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 10/24/2003 8:54 Comments || Top||

#16  Sorry, I though you said something a few days ago about the murder of members of minorities being more serious than that of members of the majority group. Are British, US, Turkish ex-pats not minority groups in Greece? I thought you might be outraged that this judge appears to be favouring Greek nationalists. Apparently not. Guess some minorities are more important to you than others?

I didn't regard it as an ethnic problem. You did.
Posted by: Bulldog || 10/24/2003 9:22 Comments || Top||

#17  "Sorry, I though you said something a few days ago about the murder of members of minorities being more serious than that of members of the majority group. "

No, I'm pretty sure that I have never ever said anything like that whatsoever.

"I thought you might be outraged that this judge appears to be favouring Greek nationalists."

I was outraged. Any reason that I should be forced to express in this forum every little thing that outrages me?

You must be outraged also, did you feel the need to express it? I don't see your commentary in the article below either. I guess that means you must approve what the judge did.

Tell me why didn't *you* join in the commentary of that article.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 10/24/2003 16:53 Comments || Top||

#18  "Sorry, I though you said something a few days ago about the murder of members of minorities being more serious than that of members of the majority group. " No, I'm pretty sure that I have never ever said anything like that whatsoever.

Here's what you wrote:

Motivation always matters in passing a sentence... ... Murder for reasons of hate towards an entire group causes a climate of fear for that entire group. The offense is worse because it's directed against an entire segment of the population. And it hurts society as a whole.

In response to this Rantburg post regarding US hate murders post-9-11. To me, this suggests that you believe that murder of a minority member is a "worse offence" than that of a random person who cannot be identified with a minority. If that's not what you meant, I'd like you to clarify, please.

Tell me why didn't *you* join in the commentary of that article.

I posted that article. I'd have thought my observation "Justice's blindfold slips in Greece" would give away the fact that I was appalled by the judge's display of partiality.
Posted by: Bulldog || 10/24/2003 20:02 Comments || Top||

Judge: November 17 defendants had ‘vision’
Justice’s blindfold slips in Greece. Hat tip: Sphaera Ephemeris.
The judge presiding over the trial of 19 suspected members of the November 17 terrorist group, Michalis Margaritis, yesterday stunned even defense lawyers when he declared that he could not judge the defendants as “common criminals.” The issue is a sensitive one because the Council of Appeals Court Judges and Margaritis’s own three-judge court have ruled that the 19 are being tried for ordinary crimes. Recognizing political motives would have entailed a trial by a court combining judges and jurors. Addressing the defendants, Margaritis said: “I believe that inside you, you believe that you did something good. I cannot say that you are common criminals. I don’t see you that way and you have sensed that. I cannot judge you as common criminals. You say that you are here because you had a vision. We will investigate this... But let’s leave ideology aside and look at the crimes. We will not convict anyone for his ideology.” Lawyer Ioanna Kourtovic, who represents alleged N17 chief hit man Dimitris Koufodinas, said, “The president of the court said what we have been saying for months.”
Coming soon: Judgement, Motivation Flava!
Posted by: Bulldog || 10/23/2003 9:41:37 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [250 views] Top|| File under:

#1  can't convict for ideology
What say you convict them for murder instead??
Posted by: B || 10/23/2003 11:32 Comments || Top||

#2  I don't know about Greece, but in the US this clown would be thrown off the case. What happened to judges being impartial?
Posted by: Spot || 10/23/2003 11:43 Comments || Top||

#3  Come, come. In the U.S., the judge would be applauded for having social sensabilities and praised for judical activism.
Posted by: Highlander || 10/23/2003 12:10 Comments || Top||

#4  The Judge probably supported the Nov 17 group while in school or he may have been bribed by this guys family. Greek courts aren't known for their impartiality, so politics play heavily into the mix. Just think the Olympics are going to held there next year!
Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) || 10/23/2003 16:49 Comments || Top||

#5  Yes, but do they have "game"???
Posted by: tu3031 || 10/23/2003 16:50 Comments || Top||

#6  Next time I'm in court I'm gonna hammer down about 8 largish cowshrooms and declare a vision.
Posted by: Shipman || 10/23/2003 20:01 Comments || Top||

#7  You would figure that going light on terrorists would be strictly a ME phenom, but ETA and Bader-M guys have gotten the same type of treatment.
Posted by: Super Hose || 10/23/2003 21:27 Comments || Top||

Quiet goes the Don to new Karachi den
Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf claims nobody called Dawood Ibrahim lives in Karachi’s Clifton area. He is right, for Dawood has shifted home recently under State protection after being named by the US Treasury Department as a "Specially Designated Global Terrorist". His new address is: House 37, Street 13, Phase-V, Defence Housing Authority, Karachi.

With this update, Indian Intelligence agencies have called Pakistan’s bluff after its blatant denial that it has not sheltered Dawood Ibrahim.

The agencies have also made startling disclosures about the high profile lifestyle of Dawood and his major-domos Chhota Shakeel and Tiger Memon in Karachi, who they alleged were continuing to indulge in anti-India activities at the behest of Pakistan’s notorious Inter Services Intelligence (ISI).

Dawood’s new house, in fact a mansion, facing the Arabian Sea, has been provided stiff security by the Karachi Police. All roads leading to his mansion have been heavily barricaded. Even those who live in his neighbourhood are not allowed to enter the Defence Housing area without being frisked. Apart from the heavily-armed guards for ground security cover, snipers have also been deployed on the roof top of Dawood’s house.

The ISI has even posted securitymen in the guise of vendors near his house. Their brief is to alert the security and the fugitive mafia don, the moment they notice anything amiss, according to the Intelligence sources.

The security measures were put in place by the Pakistani authorities after Dawood nearly escaped a bid on his life during his recent visit to the Kawish Crown Shopping Plaza in Karachi. The Kawish Crown Plaza is one of the business fronts of Dawood’s vast underground empire in Karachi.

Before the denial by President Musharraf had come, security advisor to the Sindh Home Department Aftab Sheikh and the Inspector-General of Police, Karachi, had acknowledged Dawood’s presence in the city. Mr Sheikh had gone on record accepting that the Kawish Crown Plaza, situated at Karachi’s Sarah-e-Faisal street, where the bomb blast had taken place, belonged to Dawood.

The sources said Dawood’s movements are now being monitored by Pakistani security after the Foreign Assets Control wing of the US Treasury Department named him. He is not allowed to even venture out of his house without getting an all- clear from the ISI bigwigs, the sources said.

Dawood’s younger brother Mushtaqueem,too, has been provided with a home at House no-10, Near Hilltop, Defence Housing Authority.

Earlier, the underworld king used to reside in his palatial 6,000 sq ft house that had a swimming pool and tennis courts in the posh Clifton area of the southern metropolis.

The Indian agencies have pinpointed the residences and the activities of Dawood and his underworld cohorts. The new disclosure contradicts the official denial by President Pervez Musharraf that there is nobody by that name in Pakistan. Not only Dawood, but his close associates Chhota Shakeel, Tiger Memon and a host of others besides his family, also live in Karachi under official protection, the sources said. Their houses are guarded by Karachi policemen in `civvies’.

During the Agra Summit, widely-circulated Pakistani news magazine Newsline had even described him as "agent of crime".

Tiger Memon lives in House no. C-201, Karachi Development Scheme, Extension-A. The main perpetrator of the 1993 serial blasts in Mumbai owns a multi-storeyed building capped with a glittering glass crown called "Kashif Crown" in Karachi’s main Sharah-e-Faisal boulvard. They all have been instructed to lie low for a while after the US expose, the sources maintained.
Posted by: rg117 || 10/23/2003 4:08:04 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [333 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Defence Housing Authority, Karachi.

I teach in the projects..... Is that what this is?

Posted by: Shipman || 10/23/2003 20:09 Comments || Top||

#2  Shipman, it's the exact opposite, it is an upmarket district, home to Industrialists, politicians and retired Generals.
Posted by: Paul Moloney || 10/23/2003 21:54 Comments || Top||

Pakistan Nabs al-Qaida Money Leader's Aide
A Yemeni national arrested this week during a routine security check at a roadblock in eastern Pakistan is believed to be an aide of captured al-Qaida financial manager Abu Zubaydah. The man, identified only as Abu Saleh, was arrested Monday along with a fellow Yemeni and a Pakistani in Faisalabad when police stopped their car at a checkpoint as they left the city. Abu Saleh worked closely with Abu Zubaydah, a senior lieutenant of al-Qaida chief Osama bin Laden who was captured in March 2002 in Faisalabad. The Pakistani arrested at the checkpoint, identified as Mohammed Javed, disclosed Saleh's name and said he was linked with Zubaydah. The second Yemeni was identified as Adnan, alias Hasanat. Javed has ties with the outlawed Lashkar-e-Jhangvi. Javed, an expert in assembling bombs, met the Yemenis in Afghanistan during the U.S.-led coalition war against the Taliban in 2001, the official said. Police found two Kalashnikov rifles in a Faisalabad house where the three suspects lived.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 10/23/2003 15:38 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [268 views] Top|| File under:

#1  is believed to be an aide of captured al-Qaida financial manager Abu Zubaydah

Is an Al Qaeda aide sort of like a being a Flag Lieutenant? I wonder what his job entails.
Posted by: Penguin || 10/23/2003 16:14 Comments || Top||

Islamabad Begins Fencing Border With Afghanistan
Pakistan has started fortifying its long border with Afghanistan with fences and checkpoints to prevent Al-Qaeda and Taleban fugitives from sneaking in, a military spokesman said yesterday. New light towers and checkpoints were being erected along the barren western frontier around the town of Chaman, a main border crossing, about 750 kilometers southwest of Islamabad, to stop Afghan insurgents from reaching Pakistan, said Gen. Shaukat Sultan. The traffic back and forth across the sparsely inhabited border region has been a source of contention between Pakistan and the Afghan government of President Hamid Karzai. Karzai has accused the Pakistanis of sheltering fighters of the ousted Taleban regime and members of Al-Qaeda. Pakistan denies giving safe haven to Afghan insurgents. But the border area is the home of tribes who share the culture and view of the Taleban. Pakistan says it is doing whatever possible to stop rebels from using its soil against Afghanistan’s fledging government.
"Like stopping them at the border?"
"No. That's not possible."
Afghanistan’s state-run television Tuesday reported that Pakistan was constructing a 40-kilometer-long wall along the Afghan border without seeking permission from Karzai’s government. Sultan said the report was inaccurate, and Pakistan was constructing no such wall. “We are only fencing our border to fight terrorism,” he told The Associated Press. Pakistan did not need permission from any country to take measures safeguarding its border, he added. Chaman is across the border from Spin Boldak, an Afghan town where suspected Taleban and Al-Qaeda insurgents have often targeted US-led coalition forces.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 10/23/2003 12:56 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [250 views] Top|| File under:

#1  This won't do any good. The border gaurds will let the Taliban pass through at the checkpoints.
Posted by: Charles || 10/23/2003 13:03 Comments || Top||

#2  A 40 km fence to protect a 2,430 km border?
Just how is that supposed to work?
Posted by: Gasse Katze || 10/23/2003 13:29 Comments || Top||

#3  They're putting up a toll booth.

Governor Le Ptomaine's idea...
Posted by: mojo || 10/23/2003 14:28 Comments || Top||

#4  Figure it'll be done by, what, 2086???
Posted by: tu3031 || 10/23/2003 16:59 Comments || Top||

#5  If they stopped the Jihadis from going into Afghanistan to let off a little steam, Pakland might literally explode from the built-up tension...can you say pay-per-view?
Posted by: Frank G || 10/23/2003 20:23 Comments || Top||

4 Involved in Sectarian Attacks Held in Karachi
Four suspected militants belonging to an outlawed group have been arrested for a spate of attacks this year in Karachi. The four, belonging to the banned Lashkar-e-Jhangvi group, carried out at least eight attacks this year, including one on a bus on Oct. 3 that killed six people, said provincial police chief Syed Kamal Shah. The ringleader, Shahnawaz Shan, also confessed to a failed suicide bombing attack on a senior police official in July, Shah told reporters.
I'll bet old Shahnawaz sure felt embarrassed showing up back at the hideout while his buds were toasting his heroic suicide attack...
“He was arrested in an overnight raid. Police seized a Kalashnikov rifle and a pistol from his possession.” Based on Shan’s statements, three of his accomplices were arrested in a series of raids and police found several assault rifles, hand grenades and explosives in their possession, Shah added.
What's unusual about that? Doesn't everybody in Pakland lug that sort of stuff around?
The group also attacked a mosque on Feb. 22, killing nine people. “So far we have not been able to find out whether they had ties with Al-Qaeda.” Lashkar-e-Jhangvi had close ties with the Taleban and some of its militants also helped Al-Qaeda network in Pakistan. Police blame Lashkar-e-Jhangvi for most of the sectarian bloodletting in Pakistan. Every year hundreds of people are killed in the country in targeted attacks by militants.

A bit more, from Shia News...
Wahhabi mullah jumps to death in Pakistan
A Wahhabi mullah died on Tuesday in Karachi after he jumped from a five story building to save himself from being captured, police said.
"You'll never take me alive, coppers!" [SPLAT!]
Laeeq, also known as Chacha, belonged to the banned Wahhabi militant group, Lashker-e-Jhangvi. Four other mullahs were also captured in a series of raids by the Pakistani police. Shahnawaz, also known as Shan, Masrur-u-Haq, Mohammed Javed and Mohammed Shamim are believed to be involved in the killing of six Shia Muslims working for SUPARCO. The Inspector General of police, Kamal Shah, while addressing a press conference, said: "These men hate Shia Muslims".
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 10/23/2003 12:50 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [254 views] Top|| File under:

#1  He CHOSE the name CHACHA? And the religious significance of Chahcha is? Kinda like if OBL changed his name to Cuddles..... loser.
Posted by: Mercutio || 10/23/2003 14:55 Comments || Top||

#2  Watch that first step there, Cha-Cha!
Ooooops. Nevermind...
Posted by: tu3031 || 10/23/2003 14:58 Comments || Top||

#3  tu3031, there's another holy site for your map...
Posted by: Seafarious || 10/23/2003 15:43 Comments || Top||

#4  A Wahhabi mullah died on Tuesday in Karachi after he jumped from a five story building to save himself from being captured, police said.

Any chance that more of these morons can be made to do the same?
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 10/23/2003 16:30 Comments || Top||

#5  Man... 5 floors.... hmmmm... whapped the ground at 45 ft/sec? Man... that's not a good way to do it.
Posted by: Shipman || 10/23/2003 20:15 Comments || Top||

#6  I don't understand the big deal about naming himself Cha-Cha..."Happy Days" just went into syndication there...I'll be more disturbed when mullahs are calling themselves Potsie, Fonzie, and Pinkie Tuscadero
Posted by: Frank G || 10/23/2003 20:28 Comments || Top||

#7  Sefarious: I'll mark it down.
Holy Place 72348: Karachi. Cha-Cha Does the Dixie.
Write up the paperwork, FedEX it to the Holy Men.
Posted by: tu3031 || 10/23/2003 20:38 Comments || Top||

Hizbul Mujahideen operating under Jamaat youth wing?
The Hizbul Mujahideen (HM) in Pakistan is working under the Shabab-e-Milli (SM), the youth wing of the Jamaat-e-Islami (JI), Hizb sources told Daily Times on Wednesday. However, HM Kashmir spokesman Abdul Saleem Hashmi denied that Hizb had or has any link with the JI. “We share a common ideology, but otherwise we do not have an organisational link with the Jamaat,” he said.
"No, no! Certainly not!"
Sources said the Jamaat had ordered officials to make sure word that Hizb is a wing of the Shabab-e-Milli should not get out. “The decision was taken nine months ago to show that the HM is an indigenous movement in Occupied Kashmir, that it is a Kashmiri organisation which has no links with the Jamaat and all its workers are Kashmiri,” sources said.
The Hizb is actually the only big Jihadi outfit operating in Kashmir that actually has a majority Kashmiri membership, the Jaish and Lashkar are something like 80% Pakistani.
When this decision was taken, the HM based in Kashmir was also separated from the Jamaat and the HM in Pakistan was told that its role in the Kashmir jihad was only to collect donations and recruit volunteers. “It was decided that the HM in Pakistan would recruit Mujahideen from the Kashmiri community in Pakistan,” sources said. Hizb earlier worked under the direct patronage of the Jamaat and its offices were in JI offices around the country. “A while ago they closed all HM offices in Pakistan, leaving just a media office in Rawalpindi.” Sources said the JI chief ran the HM in Pakistan through a Kashmir committee, but now the Shabab-e-Milli is responsible for its affairs. The Jamaat is reportedly under pressure to renounce all jihadi groups to improve the Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal’s image. “There has been pressure from outside the JI since some Al-Qaeda operators were arrested in JI workers’ homes,” sources said.
Since it's Pakistan, they don't actually have to do anything, just say it...
Posted by: Paul Moloney || 10/23/2003 8:01:56 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [244 views] Top|| File under:

LEADERSHIP: Medal of Honor Awarded for Iraq Action
During Operation Iraqi Freedom, SFC (Sergeant First Class) Smith was a platoon sergeant/acting platoon leader in the 1st Brigade’s B Company, 11th Engineer Battalion attached to the 2-7 Task Force. Bravo Company was in contact with Saddam’s forces nearly every day during the second phase of the campaign. After a pause below As Samawah and Karbala, the drive on Baghdad from the south carried the 2-7th into Saddam International Airport.

On the morning of April 4, the Task Force was inside of the airport and several enemy soldiers had been captured, so a containment pen had be to quickly built. There was a wall 10 ft tall paralleling the north side of the highway, on the battalion’s flank just behind the front lines. Smith (whose callsign was ’Sapper 7’) decided to punch a hole in it, so that the inside walls would form two sides of a triangular enclosure and the open third side could be closed off with rolls of concertina wire.

Smith used an armored combat earthmover to punch through the wall and, while wire was being laid across the corner, one of the squad’s two M113s moved toward a gate on the far side of the courtyard. The driver pushed open the gate to open a field of fire, revealing between 50 and 100 enemy soldiers massed to attack. The only way out was the hole the engineers had put in the wall and the gate where the hardcore Iraqis were firing.

What happened next was equal to Audie Murphy’s legendary World War II heroism. Iraqi soldiers perched in trees and a nearby tower let loose with a barrage of RPGs and there were snipers on the roof. A mortar round hit the engineers’ M-113, seriously wounding three soldiers inside. Smith helped evacuate them to an aid station, which was threatened by the attack as well.

Smith promptly organized the engineers’ defense, since the only thing that stood between the Iraqis and the Task Force’s headquarters were about 15 to 20 engineers, mortarmen and medics. A second M113 was hit by an RPG, but was still operational. Dozens of Iraqi soldiers were charging from the gate or scaling a section of the wall, jumping into the courtyard.

Smith took over the second APC’s .50-caliber machine gun and got the vehicle into a position where he could stop the Iraqis. First Sergeant Tim Campbell realized that they had to knock out the Iraqi position in the tower and after consulting with Smith, led two soldiers to take the tower. Armed only with a light machine-gun, a rifle and a pistol with one magazine, the trio advanced behind the smoke of tall grass that had caught fire from exploding ammunition.

Smith yelled for more ammunition three times during the fight, going through 400 rounds before he was hit in the head. Shortly before taking the tower and gunning down the Iraqis inside, Campbell noticed that the sound of Smith’s .50-caliber had also stopped. Campbell figured Smith was just reloading again.

The medics worked on SFC Smith for 30 minutes, but he was dead.

According to the citation, his actions killed 20 to 50 Iraqis, allowing the American wounded to be evacuated, saving the aid station and headquarters (as well as possibly 100 American lives). Fellow soldiers credit Smith with thwarting the advance of well-trained, well-equipped soldiers from the Special Republican Guard, which was headed straight for the 2-7 Task Force’s headquarters (Tactical Operations Center), less than a half-mile away. The battle captains, commanders and journalists huddled at the operations center were trying to protect themselves against tank fire and snipers in the nearby woods They had no idea about the possible onslaught of Republican Guard from the nearby complex.

Smith, a veteran of the 1991 Persian Gulf War, was a 33 year old from Tampa, Florida. He left behind a wife, a son and a daughter.

Memorials to SFC Paul Ray Smith, online at:
Posted by: Yosemite Sam || 10/23/2003 1:25:15 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [250 views] Top|| File under:

#1  God bless him and his family. Rest in peace.
Posted by: Jarhead || 10/23/2003 15:09 Comments || Top||

Baghdad Police Find Car Bomb
Iraqi police found a car packed with explosives in the Iraqi capital and arrested a Syrian who confessed to having rigged it, Iraqi officials said Thursday. A few hours later, a roadside bomb was found near the same area in the city's Al-Doura district. The Americans blew up the car, a Toyota, and police and U.S. troops sealed off the area. Iraqi policeman Sahir Shakr said the car was discovered about 6 a.m. and the driver arrested. The roadside bomb was found later outside the nearby An-Nahada secondary school. The suspect, believed to be in his early 20s, told police he had been given money to do it, according to 2nd Lt. Mustafa al-Obeidi. Police said they had received a tip Wednesday night and put the area under surveillance.
"Hey! It ain't like I'm a terrorist or somethin'! I dunnit for the money!"
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 10/23/2003 13:21 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [257 views] Top|| File under:

#1  " I'm not a terrorist, just a mercenary! "
Posted by: Charles || 10/23/2003 13:37 Comments || Top||

#2  That means ya gotta hang him with a green rope...
Posted by: Old Patriot || 10/23/2003 13:55 Comments || Top||

Six wounded in grenade accident in Iraq
An Iraqi woman and five children were wounded, one seriously, when a grenade they were tampering with exploded at an abandoned army camp near Baquba, northeast of Baghdad. “My wife, one of my children and four of his friends were injured Wednesday night in the explosion of a grenade in the Saad camp,” Rahman Mizhar Ilwan told AFP.
Do they get their brains from their father or their mother?
The camp in Baquba, 60 kilometres from the capital, was used by the now disbanded Iraqi army before Saddam Hussein's government was ousted in April. "Children were playing with the grenade when it exploded," said Elwan.
"Mahmoud, stop playing with that grenade!"
"Well, what can I play with, Pop?"
"Here. Here's a mortar round. Now put the grenade away."
Ilwan and his wife are one of a number families that live in a disused area of the camp. The majority of them are displaced Arabs from Kurdistan. US forces use another part of the camp, the 40-year-old Iraqi told AFP. Ilwan said there was likely more unexploded ordnance left behind by Saddam's army at the camp.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 10/23/2003 12:36 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [250 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Which is why we're at the camp, destroying the weapons.
Posted by: Charles || 10/23/2003 13:11 Comments || Top||

#2  the Iraqi version of hot potato.
Posted by: Jarhead || 10/23/2003 15:12 Comments || Top||

#3  Any relation to Raad Saad?? Bad day for the Saad clan.
Posted by: B || 10/23/2003 17:06 Comments || Top||

US frees Iraqi sheikh after 56 days
US forces today released Sheikh Hatem Assy al-Obeidi, a chief of one of the country's largest tribes, who had been suspected of involvement in attacks on strategic oil and power lines around the northern city of Kirkuk, his brother said. "Sheikh Hatem Assy was freed this morning after having spent 56 days in detention in the coalition force's prison," said Answar Assy. "All charges and accusations against my brother were proven to be unfounded."
"Yez got nuttin' on him, coppers! Nuttin', I tell yez!"
The tribal chief was detained in late August, after bomb-making equipment and a large amount of small arms were found in his village.
"Well... That. Yes. But other than that, nuttin'!"
His detention brought to a climax a bitter dispute between the US forces and the sheikh about whether he was living up to his commitments to guard fuel and power lines, under a contract he had signed with the army in July.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 10/23/2003 12:26 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [240 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Contract? What, did Bush promise one of his daughters to the Sheikh's son?
Posted by: Charles || 10/23/2003 13:10 Comments || Top||

Posthumous Medal of Honor -- Iraq
Got this off of www.strategypage.com

October 23, 2003: In today’s world, it’s easy to lose sight of the fact that one man can make a difference. Paul Ray Smith is on the way to becoming the first serviceman to receive the Medal of Honor since MSG Gary Gordon and SFC Randall Shughart fought their last battle in Mogadishu on October 3, 1993.

During Operation Iraqi Freedom, SFC (Sergeant First Class) Smith was a platoon sergeant/acting platoon leader in the 1st Brigade’s B Company, 11th Engineer Battalion attached to the 2-7 Task Force. Bravo Company was in contact with Saddam’s forces nearly every day during the second phase of the campaign. After a pause below As Samawah and Karbala, the drive on Baghdad from the south carried the 2-7th into Saddam International Airport.

On the morning of April 4, the Task Force was inside of the airport and several enemy soldiers had been captured, so a containment pen had be to quickly built. There was a wall 10 ft tall paralleling the north side of the highway, on the battalion’s flank just behind the front lines. Smith (whose callsign was ’Sapper 7’) decided to punch a hole in it, so that the inside walls would form two sides of a triangular enclosure and the open third side could be closed off with rolls of concertina wire.

Smith used an armored combat earthmover to punch through the wall and, while wire was being laid across the corner, one of the squad’s two M113s moved toward a gate on the far side of the courtyard. The driver pushed open the gate to open a field of fire, revealing between 50 and 100 enemy soldiers massed to attack. The only way out was the hole the engineers had put in the wall and the gate where the hardcore Iraqis were firing.

What happened next was equal to Audie Murphy’s legendary World War II heroism. Iraqi soldiers perched in trees and a nearby tower let loose with a barrage of RPGs and there were snipers on the roof. A mortar round hit the engineers’ M-113, seriously wounding three soldiers inside. Smith helped evacuate them to an aid station, which was threatened by the attack as well.

Smith promptly organized the engineers’ defense, since the only thing that stood between the Iraqis and the Task Force’s headquarters were about 15 to 20 engineers, mortarmen and medics. A second M113 was hit by an RPG, but was still operational. Dozens of Iraqi soldiers were charging from the gate or scaling a section of the wall, jumping into the courtyard.

Smith took over the second APC’s .50-caliber machine gun and got the vehicle into a position where he could stop the Iraqis. First Sergeant Tim Campbell realized that they had to knock out the Iraqi position in the tower and after consulting with Smith, led two soldiers to take the tower. Armed only with a light machine-gun, a rifle and a pistol with one magazine, the trio advanced behind the smoke of tall grass that had caught fire from exploding ammunition.

Smith yelled for more ammunition three times during the fight, going through 400 rounds before he was hit in the head. Shortly before taking the tower and gunning down the Iraqis inside, Campbell noticed that the sound of Smith’s .50-caliber had also stopped. Campbell figured Smith was just reloading again.

The medics worked on SFC Smith for 30 minutes, but he was dead.

According to the citation, his actions killed 20 to 50 Iraqis, allowing the American wounded to be evacuated, saving the aid station and headquarters (as well as possibly 100 American lives). Fellow soldiers credit Smith with thwarting the advance of well-trained, well-equipped soldiers from the Special Republican Guard, which was headed straight for the 2-7 Task Force’s headquarters (Tactical Operations Center), less than a half-mile away. The battle captains, commanders and journalists huddled at the operations center were trying to protect themselves against tank fire and snipers in the nearby woods. They had no idea about the possible onslaught of Republican Guard from the nearby complex.

Smith, a veteran of the 1991 Persian Gulf War, was a 33 year old from Tampa, Florida. He left behind a wife, a son and a daughter.

Memorials to SFC Paul Ray Smith, online at:
Posted by: Patrick Phillips || 10/23/2003 11:56:50 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [249 views] Top|| File under:

#1  A true hero isn't a General, but a single soldiers who takes courageously takes action to save others, despite the risk to his own life.

Paul Ray Smith, your family is in my prayers, and you are a true Amercan hero.

Posted by: Charles || 10/23/2003 13:16 Comments || Top||

#2  ...It's been asked before, but it should be asked over and over again: Where do we get men like this?
May God bless and protect his family.

Posted by: Mike Kozlowski || 10/23/2003 13:45 Comments || Top||

#3  God bless them all.
Posted by: Sgt.DT || 10/23/2003 16:03 Comments || Top||

Southeast Asia
Philippines: al-Qaida Suspect Arrested
A Jordanian suspected of being an al-Qaida operative and of helping channel funds to the group's terror operations in the Philippines has been arrested. Mahmoud Afif Abdeljalil — believed to be a close associate of Osama bin Laden's brother-in-law — was arrested in the southern city of Zamboanga on Sept. 25 on charges of having an expired visa. He was being interrogated, and Immigration Commissioner Andrea Domingo said he could face criminal charges. She described Abdeljalil as the "point man" of Mohammed Jamal Khalifa, a Saudi businessman married to one of bin Laden's sisters. Philippine officials accuse Khalifa of helping establish al-Qaida's terror cell in the Philippines in the late 1980s and early 1990s, using a charity organization to funnel money to the Abu Sayyaf Muslim extremist group. After Khalifa left the Philippines in 1994, Abdeljalil took over his businesses on the main southern island of Mindanao, Domingo said. She cited a military intelligence report that Abdeljalil was in constant touch with Khalifa, whose whereabouts are unknown. The intelligence report said that before his capture, Abdeljalil represented Khalifa in business transactions and signed documents on his behalf. He was also trying to sell land in Zamboanga owned by Khalifa and his Philippine wife, Alice Yabo, Domingo said. She claimed that Abdeljalil's house in Zamboanga was used as a safe-house and meeting place for al-Qaida members operating in the southern Philippines, and that his Zamboanga-based construction firm was a front for funding the terror group's activities here and abroad. She said the Jordanian, who has two Philippine wives, obtained a temporary resident visa from the immigration bureau in October 1995, but failed to extend it when it expired in October 1998.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 10/23/2003 14:58 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [258 views] Top|| File under:

US to hand Hambali to Indonesia
US President George W Bush promised to return Southeast Asia's top terror suspect Hambali to Indonesia for trial once American investigators have finished questioning him. The White House confirmed that Bush agreed to try to make sure Hambali was handed over to Indonesia. "He committed to work with them at an appropriate time, that he would work to make sure that Hambali was handed over," White House communications director Dan Bartlett told reporters in Canberra during Bush's visit there. "He did not set a timetable for that. (Indonesian) President Megawati (Sukarnoputri) seemed reassured by that commitment." Hambali, the alleged operations chief of the al-Qaeda linked Jemaah Islamiah network, was arrested in August in Thailand. The Indonesian citizen has been interrogated by US agents at an undisclosed location ever since.
"More giggle juice, Hambali?"
"Yesh, shank yew..."
"Absolutely, Bush promised to hand over Hambali to Indonesia for trial," Indonesian foreign ministry spokesman Marty Natalegawa said. "The only condition is that the process of interrogation (by US agents) has to be completed. Bush said that still needed more time."
"How much time, G.W.?"
"'Bout 15 years..."
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 10/23/2003 12:22 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [244 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Do they need him back all at once, or can we set up an installment plan?
Posted by: BH || 10/23/2003 12:33 Comments || Top||

#2  " Now, the liver goes next to the kidney, right? Oh, I wish they had sent instructions! "
Posted by: Charles || 10/23/2003 12:57 Comments || Top||

Terror Networks
More on the Shout-Outs to Sleepers
Al-Qaida has reportedly sent a message to its network of sleeper agents in the Persian Gulf, ordering more attacks on the United States and its allies.
That’d make it Abu Hazim’s turf and he’s said to be in Saudi Arabia these days.
Intelligence sources told Middle East Newsline last weekend’s taped message from al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden was meant to awaken sleepers to carry out one or more unspecified attacks, with the main target believed to be Kuwait. An unidentified intelligence source told MENL: "We believe this was directed at al-Qaida’s large sleeper network in Kuwait to move into action. There’s nothing more specific than this." Bin Laden’s message broadcast over the Aljazeera satellite channel warned of new attacks against the United States and its allies in Iraq. MENL noted that during that message, bin Laden named one only Arab country -- Kuwait.
Still developing, though it’s interesting to learn that al-Qaeda has a "large" sleeper network in place in Kuwait. Anybody care to lay odds that they were the ones taking pot-shots at our troops last fall? More to the point, if the Kuwaitis know the sleepers are there this might be one motive behind their refusal to accept Suleiman Abu Ghaith (assuming the offer wasn’t just BS) from the Iranians.
Posted by: Dan Darling || 10/23/2003 1:12:17 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [243 views] Top|| File under:

Middle East
Classic Arafish: "I Feel The Smell Of Paradise"
enormous hat tip to LGF! EFL

Meanwhile, an aide who visited Arafat on Tuesday night said Arafat was jittery as Israeli forces surrounded a mosque about a half-mile from his Ramallah headquarters.

Arafat, who has been confined to his compound in the West Bank town for nearly two years, feared Israeli troops might come after him, the aide said, declining to be identified. Arafat, who was holding a submachine gun in addition to his pistol, closed windows and shouted orders at his guards to take up positions.

When the aide told him the Israeli operation was small, Arafat said, "You don’t know them. I do, so I have to be careful," the aide said.
paranoia strikes deep....heh heh
Arafat then insisted he would not be taken alive if the Israelis try to expel him. oh please oh please put up a fight

"I feel the smell of paradise," Arafat reportedly said.

Elsewhere in the West Bank, masked Palestinian gunmen killed two Palestinians accused of being informants for Israel and displayed their bodies in the central square of the Tulkarem refugee camp.

The militants released a videotape of what they said was a confession by the two men. In the recording, which runs more than 30 minutes, the two, dressed casually and sitting next to each other, talk calmly to the camera. They say the information they gave to Israeli intelligence led to the deaths of several militants from Islamic Jihad and the Al Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades, a militant group loosely linked to Arafat’s Fatah (news - web sites) faction.

A member of Al Aqsa said the men were kidnapped two weeks ago and interrogated by Islamic Jihad, an Iranian-funded group that often cooperates with Al Aqsa in the West Bank. The Al Aqsa member said the two groups carried out the killings together "to share the honor."

Israeli intelligence makes frequent use of Palestinian informants to target wanted Palestinians, and dozens of suspected collaborators have been killed by fellow Palestinians during three years of violence.

An Israeli military court, meanwhile, sentenced a 23-year-old Palestinian woman to 320 years in prison for helping plan and carry out an August 2001 suicide bombing at a Jerusalem pizzeria that killed 15 people, including two Americans.

Posted by: Frank G || 10/23/2003 11:03:22 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [296 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Hit the Fish's tank with a JDAM full of Nitrous oxide. Give him his last laugh.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 10/23/2003 23:52 Comments || Top||

Home Front
Wal-Mart Raids Catch 300 Illegal Workers
LITTLE ROCK, Ark. - Federal agents raided Wal-Mart’s headquarters and 60 of its stores across the country Thursday, arresting more than 300 illegal workers in an immigration crackdown at the world’s biggest retailer.

The workers were members of cleaning crews hired by outside contractors, but federal law enforcement officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity said Wal-Mart had direct knowledge of the immigration violations. They cited recordings of meetings and conversations among Wal-Mart executives, managers and contractors.

"We have seen no evidence of this from the INS, and, if that turns out to be true, we will cooperate fully with law enforcement officials," Wal-Mart spokeswoman Mona Williams said.

Of course the INS does not exist anymore.... its the BCIS now.

The workers were arrested as they finished their night shifts at Wal-Mart stores in 21 states. Agents also hauled away several boxes of documents from an executive’s office at Wal-Mart headquarters in Bentonville.

Must have been his/her collection of junk mail... Yeah! thats it! Certainly not evidence!

An employer can face civil and criminal penalties for knowingly hiring illegal immigrants or failing to comply with certain employee recordkeeping regulations.

Wal-Mart Stores had sales last year of $244.5 billion. The company has about 1.1 million employees in the United States, and it uses more than 100 third-party contractors to clean more than 700 stores nationwide, Williams said.

"We require each of these contractors to use only legal workers," she said. Or at least tell us they are legal... Plausable deniability and all that...

The law enforcement sources said the investigation grew out of earlier probes of Wal-Mart cleaning crew contractors in 1998 and 2001.

And Wal-Mart still didn’t get the message??

All the arrested workers were in the country illegally, said Garrison Courtney, a spokesman with Immigration and Customs Enforcement. They were detained at local immigration offices. Those who had no criminal record were released with instructions to appear before immigration judges.

After which they promptly scurried off in 300 different directions....

Wal-Mart is not the first big company to be targeted in an immigration investigation. Six managers at Tyson Foods, based one town away from Wal-Mart in Springdale, were charged in an immigrant-smuggling case in 2001.

One defendant shot himself to death a few months after being charged, and two managers entered guilty pleas early in the case. A jury acquitted the poultry company and three other managers.

Maybe they can give a recommendation on a lawyer to Wal-mart....

Ulysses A. Yannas, an analyst with the investment firm Buckman, Buckman and Reid, said it is too much to expect Wal-Mart to keep track of all of its vendors’ workers. But he said the investigation could present a problem for the company.

Lets see... they can track millions of inventory from tens of thousands of suppliers but cannot track which of its vendors workers are legal immigrants? Aren’t they afraid the illegals might steal stuff? I mean it is not as if they are law-abiding or anything.. they are ILLEGAL

"It is a question of what else it might bring out. These are long, drawn-out processes," Yannas said.

Top Wal-Mart officials learned of Thursday’s sweep when store managers began calling headquarters for guidance in dealing with the raids.

Keep your trap shut... they got nuttin!

Courtney said agents searched the office of one of Wal-Mart’s executives. Williams, the spokeswoman, said they spent several hours in the office of a "mid-level manager" at Wal-Mart’s headquarters and carried away several boxes of their junk-mail collection paperwork.

She said she did not know if any other Wal-Mart administrative offices were searched.
I can say no more!
The arrests were made at stores in Alabama, Arkansas, Arizona, Connecticut, Delaware, Kentucky, Massachusetts, Maryland, Michigan, North Carolina, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Virginia and West Virginia.
Posted by: CrazyFool || 10/23/2003 10:00:34 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [336 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Did they get that little yellow smiley face bastard from the commercials? Please tell me they did.
Posted by: tu3031 || 10/23/2003 22:34 Comments || Top||

#2  Hmmm, gearing up for the election are we? I once did personnel for a hotel who hired illegals (shock!). You knew who they were because when the INS came through they'd scramble like dogs on linoleum, hiding closets, bushes, etc. My boss didn't care, so they'd be back at work later that day. I tried to make the process as "legal" as I could, but all they really needed to present me with was a realistic looking driver's license and a social security card. You can go to any street corner and get them. I wasn't supposed to question the documents, as long as they look legal. We were covered if we had the valid "proper forms" in their personnel files.

Now, I didn't stay too long at that job, for obvious reasons, but it does cause me to wonder; if hiring staff is not supposed to question the valid looking ID's (that's racist) and if you ever call them in and say, "um, the SS dept says your number isn't valid", then they just say, I must have given you the wrong one, I'll go home and get it....(ie: I quit). Then, shortly, a different guy would come in apply for that job; funny how much he looks like the guy who just quit.

I suppose Wal-Mart is probably getting nailed because their cleaning service's hiring department was in a pickup truck and their payroll was a roll of fresh green bills.

But, excuse me for suspecting that this Wal Mart sweep is nothing more than a glitzy political move. Maybe GW wants to show conservatives that he is cracking down on illegal immigration or maybe it's Democrats wishing to hurt GW's efforts to attrack the Hispanic vote. Who knows? Since it's in Arkansas, I'd guess the latter. Or more likely, the IRS figures this is a good way to get a big hunk of cash from Wal-Mart for unpaid taxes.

But, if the Government feels that the only real "crime" being committed by Wal Mart is that they didn't properly employ their illegals, how is this anything but a meaningless sham?
Posted by: B || 10/24/2003 9:01 Comments || Top||

Africa: East
Your Sharia at work
From Hootinan:

In Nigeria, a sharia (Islamic) court can sentence women to death by stoning for getting raped, but a man who rapes a little girl gets 40 lashes and a fine. (via lgf).

When hearing the case, the court noticed that Tukur asked the little girl to meet him at his room to collect a scroll. As the girl entered the room, the cleric ordered the young girl to undress after which he forcefully had carnal knowledge of her.

After he had finished, the cleric noticed that he had injured the little girl and became jittery. He then went out and told her to remain in the room until when he returned.

The court was told that before Tukur could return with an a different set of clothes for the girl, she had sneaked out of the room with blood rushing under her legs and staining her clothes.

As she was moving, some people who live nearby Tukur’s house stopped her and asked her what happened. As the little girl was narrating what really happened, the anxious Islamic scholar emerged and he was immediately arrested.

Tukur was then handed to the vigilance group (hisba) who rushed the little girl to the hospital for the treatment. Delivering his judgment, the Sharia court judge, Mallam Dahiru Mohammed Gusau ruled the case by sentencing the accused Islamic scholar to 40 strokes of the came including fine of N10,000.

The Sharia court judge Mallam Dahiru Mohammed told the accused Islamic scholar to fear the Almighty God as every human being would give account of his deeds hereafter.

That being the case, we’ll just give you a little tap on the wrist and next time try a boy or a sheep - they don’t bleed as much
Posted by: mercutio || 10/23/2003 6:15:50 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [252 views] Top|| File under:

#1  This guy needs a 45 acp. Nothing else.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 10/23/2003 19:26 Comments || Top||

#2  A prostate check with a hot poker would be a good start
Posted by: Frank G || 10/23/2003 19:39 Comments || Top||

#3  I hope that Allah deputizes the girls dad for a little West Virginia justice.
Posted by: Super Hose || 10/23/2003 21:11 Comments || Top||

Middle East
New Hardware for Troops
From BBC:

EFL- read the whole thing....

Anti-sniper laser set for Iraq

The US military plans to deploy a hi-tech laser device in Iraq which is capable of pinpointing sniper fire, a top Pentagon scientist has said.

Other anti-guerrilla technologies in the pipeline would help detect roadside bombs and booby-traps, which have been inflicting daily casualties on US forces.

The article is interesting in and of it self - the fact that there was no BBC-spin was even more interesting....

Posted by: mercutio || 10/23/2003 4:25:27 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [247 views] Top|| File under:

Africa: Subsaharan
DEBKA: Two Gazan Palestinians detonated bomb that killed 3 Americans


US officials in Tel Aviv are complaining about the “mixed” cooperation FBI investigators have encountered from Palestinian Authority security services in their inquiry into the remote-controlled bomb attack in the Gaza Strip on Wednesday, October 15, that left three American security men dead and one injured. This was a polite expression of their frustration at being stonewalled by the Palestinian authorities who know exactly whom the perpetrators are.

DEBKAfile has obtained their names exclusively from high intelligence and counter-terror sources.

The murderous bomb-attack was planned and executed by Yasser Zannoon and Mohammad al-Baba, heads of a Khan Younes militia in the southern Gaza Strip. The undercover allegiances of this Palestinian militia hint at the labyrinth of terrorist groups rampant in the Gaza Strip. On the one hand, the Khan Younes militia operates in the framework of the Popular Resistance Committees, whose chief is Yasser Arafat’s man in Gaza, Jemal Sema Dana...

Posted by: mercutio || 10/23/2003 4:12:15 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [254 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Gazan Egyptians. There ain't no such thang as "Palestine".
Posted by: BH || 10/23/2003 16:29 Comments || Top||

#2  Well, folks, the ball is in our court. We can put up and shut up, or we can show people what happens when you mess with Americans. GW, what is YOUR call?
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 10/23/2003 16:57 Comments || Top||

#3  In the history of the Solar System, has there ever been another group of people so determined to act against their own self-interest as the Palestinians?
Posted by: SteveS || 10/23/2003 17:51 Comments || Top||

#4  Yeah, the one that used to live on the planet between Mars and Jupiter...
Posted by: mojo || 10/23/2003 18:09 Comments || Top||

#5  Yeah, the one that used to live on the planet between Mars and Jupiter...

Now that's damn good. Rocks to rock.
Posted by: Shipman || 10/23/2003 20:25 Comments || Top||

Middle East
IDF ready to remove Arafat - IAF buzzed Assad’s palace in August

The IDF is ready to carry out the cabinet’s decision to remove Palestinian Authority Chairman Yasser Arafat the moment the orders are given, a senior military source told The Jerusalem Post Wednesday.

"We have presented plans showing the risks and the chances of the operation itself, including the options to remove him alive or not," he said.
"The government has to make a decision to allow the army to act. The army is ready. The army always plans for all possibilities," he said.

I can say no more! Oh, wait, he does...

"I’m not worried. The battalions are strong and have high standards and are working well. Every four months, new soldiers are added to the fighting and officers are rotated. The standing army can keep this up for years," he said.
He added that the current conflict will not end with a major military measure.

"We can stage a major operation again, like Defensive Shield. We can do one in the Gaza Strip," he said.

"But this conflict is one of stamina between the Palestinian and Israeli societies. What concerns me is the resilience and stamina of the Israeli society," he added.

Yeah, that’s a problem over here, too.

In a first acknowledgment by an IDF officer of the August report an IAF fighter buzzed Assad’s palace, he described what transpired.

"Imagine this F-15 flying 50 meters above Assad’s palace at 1 a.m., with all of is thrusters directed exactly over the palace and no one even detected it until it was over the palace. This is embarrassing not to mention unpleasant," he said with a chuckle.

Posted by: Pete Stanley || 10/23/2003 3:57:56 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [256 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Heh. When I was a kid, I had the pleasure of having a couple of jets go over my house at tree-top level. I distinctly remember seeing one of them PULL UP to go over some trees behind the house.

Quite an experience -- and one that would, I think, fill your britches if the planes were from a country you've been ordering and funding atrocities against.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 10/23/2003 16:25 Comments || Top||

#2  "with all of is thrusters directed exactly over the palace" It was at this point that Bashir felt really vulnerable and scrambled under the bed for cover. Aides found him later in the fetal position sucking his thumb.
Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) || 10/23/2003 16:42 Comments || Top||

#3  Definitely more effect with an F-15 than my Cessna 172. I defer to the masters with the big fuel credit cards.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 10/23/2003 16:55 Comments || Top||

#4  Now AP, flying a Cessna a "grasstop" height must be fun too....
Posted by: Carl in N.H. || 10/23/2003 17:39 Comments || Top||

#5  Yes it is. Especially flying meandering rivers at below treetop level (where there weren't any powerlines). Humming a tune from Dire Straits album. *sigh* Those were the days.....
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 10/23/2003 17:43 Comments || Top||

#6  Heh. When I was a kid, I had the pleasure of having a couple of jets go over my house at tree-top level

I spent summers as a kid on the N. Florida coast.... I waited for the suckers. Happiness was an afterburner...

I once saw a B-52 running no more than 100 ft. above the marsh... I could see the flash paint on the underside...

Ah! The sound of freedom.
Posted by: Shipman || 10/23/2003 20:31 Comments || Top||

Home Front
Second Rumsfeld Memo Leaked to Media
From Scrappleface:

(2003-10-23) -- A second memo written by U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to his top deputies was leaked to the news media today by a "very senior Defense Department official".

Here is the entire text of the memo:

TO: Gen. Dick Myers
Paul Wolfowitz
Gen. Pete Pace
Doug Feith

FROM: Donald Rumsfeld

SUBJECT: Loyalty and Trust in DoD

October 22, 2003

My private memo of October 16, 2003 to the four of you showed up in the news headlines.

You’re all fired.

Leak this!


Posted by: mercutio || 10/23/2003 3:22:50 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [250 views] Top|| File under:

#1  LOL! Somebody screwed up. It can't be that hard to pin-point this one. If not, then we shouldn't be all that surprised that they can't find OBL.
Posted by: B || 10/23/2003 17:05 Comments || Top||

#2  Anyone who has ever been in business, run and organization, been part of a group (even a media company, newspaper, television station, etc.)or a political party knows that this memo is SOP for CEO types to think out-loud and bring some of their thoughts (streams of consciousness) to the second tier managers. But not a politician or anyone with an axe to grind - like Kerry and his band of elves or that idiot from South Dakota that makes me wonder about too much inbreeding up there.
Posted by: Jack is Back! || 10/23/2003 18:12 Comments || Top||

#3  I think Rummy did a good job leaking his own memo.
Now he has four subordinates who are so focused on their own loyalty they will pretty much agree to whatever Rummy tells them. One cat, four pigeons.
Posted by: john || 10/23/2003 20:35 Comments || Top||

2 Face Penalty in Slave Reparations Case
Looks like some folks aren’t betting on President Sharpton...
WARSAW, Va. - Crystal Foster’s father advised her to spend the $500,000 income tax refund she got two years ago. When the government came looking for its money, the Fosters said it was their rightful reparations, since their ancestors were slaves.
Sorry. Wrong answer. Slap the bracelets on him, Muldoon.
Though there is no federal reparations program, Foster had spent the money in eight days, buying a $40,000 Mercedes Benz, paying off her student loans and helping her brother pay for his first year at Virginia Tech.
500 Grand in 8 days! Oh, yeah! This is political! Power to the People, baby!
Foster’s father, Robert Lee Foster, prepared her tax forms and was convicted along with his daughter of trying to defraud the government. He maintains he did the right thing.
Most scam artists do.
"Black people are not treated as humans, but as things by the U.S. government," he said in an interview at the Northern Neck Regional Jail. "We were used as resources to enrich this country and we get no inheritance from the wealth we brought."
Your ancestors were, you weren’t. If your great great great grandfather was still around I’d have no problem giving him your kids Mercedes.
According to the Internal Revenue Service, more than 80,000 tax returns were filed in 2001 seeking nonexistent slavery tax credits, totaling $2.7 billion. More than $30 million was mistakenly paid out in slave reparations in 2000 and part of 2001.
Great job by the IRS! Really on the ball!
That number dropped significantly last year after stepped-up scrutiny of tax returns and an aggressive media campaign targeted against scam artists promising to secure tax credits for blacks.
Like our man Robert Lee, maybe?
But the government has also begun quietly cracking down on filers of false claims after years of looking the other way.
Looking the other way for years? Why might that be?
Foster and his daughter each were convicted in July of conspiracy to defraud the government. Robert Foster also was convicted of four counts and Crystal Foster of one count of making false claims. Both were scheduled to be sentenced in U.S. District Court in Richmond on Thursday. Defendants in similar cases have received up to seven years in prison.
Free Robert Lee and Crystal! Can’t wait for the website.
The case against Robert Foster has taken several bizarre turns.
Foster renounced his U.S. citizenship in jail and professed allegiance to the Moab Tiara Cherokee Kituwah Nation, an obscure Charlotte, N.C., group whose members claim they are descendants of African Moors who came to the New World before European colonialists.
Good. File your taxes with them and see what your refund is. Got a feeling not as good as Uncle Sugar’s.
Foster filed papers in U.S. District Court seeking to vacate the judgment against him based on lack of jurisdiction by the U.S. government. The judge rejected the motion. Foster also tried unsuccessfully to fire his attorney, Thomas Johnson, and hire an "indigenous attorney" who identified himself as justice secretary for the Kituwah Nation.
Wonder what an "indigenous attorney" charges per hour?
Foster, a 51-year-old tax return preparer, said he endured years of racial discrimination during his career with the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs hospital in Richmond. In 2000, he sued his former employer, claiming he was passed over for promotion as an accountant because he was black. The case was settled for $5,000, leaving Foster bitter.
He’s bitter, dammit!
"I was picked out to be harassed," he said. "I was always outspoken." Foster, who admitted he called U.S. District Judge Richard L. Williams a "white devil" in court, said he doesn’t hate anybody. "But I do hate the actions of some people."
Doesn’t sound paranoid to me.
The issue of slavery reparations has long simmered in the United States, but some say it may be gaining momentum.
Blacks last year filed lawsuits in several states against a number of large corporations, alleging they profited from slavery for two centuries and that blacks should be compensated.
If there’s someone around who was a slave up to 1865, by all means, give them the money.
More recently, Democratic presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich said that if elected president he would order a study of reparations for descendants of slaves.
Well knock me over with a feather...
IRS spokeswoman Michelle Lamishaw said the idea of filing reparations claims may have originated with a 1993 Essence magazine editorial urging blacks to seek refunds of $43,206 per household as a delinquent tax rebate. The magazine said the figure was the modern-day equivalent of 40 acres and a mule, which Congress voted to give former slaves following the Civil War. The deal was vetoed by President Andrew Johnson.
Who wrote the editorial, Spike Lee?
Foster said he increased the total tenfold to account for inflation. According to the U.S. attorney’s office, Foster prepared returns claiming more than $3.6 million in reparations, most for about $500,000 each.
...and he’s a math wiz, too.
In the refund that was mistakenly paid out, 25-year-old Crystal Foster claimed she had overpaid taxes on long-term capital gains in 2000. She listed the fictitious "Black Capital Investments" fund of the U.S. Treasury as the source of the gains. Foster received her refund check in October 2001. Prosecutors say only about half the money has been recovered.
My oppressed ancestors would’ve wanted me to drive a Mercedes.
Johnson, Robert Foster’s attorney, declined to comment on the case. But Foster said from jail he did not believe he broke the law. "This was not an effort to defraud the U.S. government," he said. "This was purely a protest against the U.S. government."
Duly noted. Enjoy your seven years.

Posted by: tu3031 || 10/23/2003 1:26:39 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [242 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Where's my money? My ancestors suffered because they couldn't find jobs. That was a direct result of blacks taking the jobs at lower wages.

Posted by: Charles || 10/23/2003 13:36 Comments || Top||

#2  "More than $30 million was mistakenly paid out in slave reparations in 2000 and part of 2001." Now why did I not think of that? If they pay that out they probably don't check any ethnicity box. Come to think of it, there is no ethnicity box on a 1040! RACISM I SAY!
Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) || 10/23/2003 13:55 Comments || Top||

#3  ...the Fosters said it was their rightful reparations, since their ancestors were slaves.

I thought their ancestors were:

...African Moors who came to the New World before European colonialists.

Which is it?
Posted by: Angie Schultz || 10/23/2003 13:57 Comments || Top||

#4  Wow, the good news is that the fact that some of these claims actually got through will take a load off my mind as I scrounge the tax form for deductions each April.
Posted by: Carl in N.H. || 10/23/2003 13:59 Comments || Top||

#5  "I was picked out to be harassed," he said. "I was always outspoken." Foster, who admitted he called U.S. District Judge Richard L. Williams a "white devil" in court, said he doesn’t hate anybody.

This kills me. He was picked out because he's a jerk, not because he's African American. His whole life he's probably been treated badly because he's a loud mouth jerk (and racist from the sound of it) and he's blamed it on the man.
Posted by: Yank || 10/23/2003 14:03 Comments || Top||

#6  Rantburg Interoffice Memorandum

To: Yank
From: Raj
RE: Use of slang

Old reference: the man
New reference: THE MAN

Posted by: Raj || 10/23/2003 14:21 Comments || Top||

#7  ROBERT LEE Foster?

Irony overload....
Posted by: mojo || 10/23/2003 14:25 Comments || Top||

#8  Oh, this is just great--the way she got that $500,000 refund is by claiming she paid $500,000 in taxes that same year and was due the refund!

Is the IRS aware of these computer thingies we have nowadays? Maybe they could buy a few?

I think I'll claim I paid $100 million in taxes and am due a full refund. That should buy me a nice life and a new ID--I wouldn't be sitting here waiting to be caught!
Posted by: Dar || 10/23/2003 14:45 Comments || Top||

#9  Raj, thanks for the correction. I'll have to rewatch Undercover Brother and catch up on THE MAN and his henchman Feather. Solid!
Posted by: Yank || 10/23/2003 15:17 Comments || Top||

#10  As a descendant of a Cherokee, I'm offended by some band of kooks using "Cherokee" in the name of their cult.

Where can I sue?
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 10/23/2003 15:32 Comments || Top||

#11  Buys an automobile from the "ethnically tolerant" Germans. Then pays tuition to a school in the very State famous for slavery. Bold statement brave soldier, bold statement indeed.
Posted by: Braniac || 10/23/2003 16:01 Comments || Top||

#12  Foster had spent the money in eight days, buying a $40,000 Mercedes Benz, paying off her student loans and helping her brother pay for his first year at Virginia Tech.

Damn! Tuition must have gone up at VA Tech, or she had one heck of a student loan. Now we have to pay for their incarceration.
Posted by: B || 10/23/2003 16:52 Comments || Top||

#13  Three hots and a cot, such a deal. Only problem is that I am sure that there will be a fine, too. Kinda wipes out the Rape-a-Nation's profit. Now she will be playing rock hockey in the big arena for less than minimum wage.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 10/23/2003 17:08 Comments || Top||

#14  ROBERT LEE Foster?

Yeah, decended from Stephens lesser known brother who made a fortune in the blackface biz.

Known only to history as the name of the famous racin steamship Robert E. Lee.
Posted by: Shipman || 10/23/2003 20:07 Comments || Top||

Africa: East
Sudan refuses to close down Hamas and Islamic Jihad offices
Sudan has turned down an American request to close down the offices of the Hamas and Islamic Jihad Movements in Khartoum. AFP quoted Ibrahim Omar, secretary general of the ruling national conference party, as saying that the American secretary of state, Colin Powell, had tabled such a request. Omar refused to describe those two Palestinian organizations as “terrorist”, adding that his government’s position towards them was clear namely that they were Islamic forces struggling to liberate Palestinian lands, “which is a legitimate right”.
Same old baloney...
“We do not share the opinion that Hamas and Islamic Jihad were pursuing terrorist activities,” Omar elaborated, adding that Zionist premier Ariel Sharon was the one to be described as a “terrorist”.
... same stale flavor.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 10/23/2003 13:06 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [680 views] Top|| File under:

#1  And same crushing embargo's.
Posted by: Charles || 10/23/2003 13:08 Comments || Top||

#2  Here's where those cruise missiles would really come in handy...
Posted by: Raj || 10/23/2003 13:12 Comments || Top||

#3  Why does it seem like every asshat is named Omar?
Posted by: Tornado || 10/23/2003 13:17 Comments || Top||

#4  Looks like they want to get on our "to do" list.
Posted by: Rex Mundi || 10/23/2003 13:24 Comments || Top||

#5  Rumsfield might want to drop a comment about "bases on two continents equals global reach". Let the Sudan add up the numbers and see if they realize they're in the sites.

Sudan would be far easier to take down than Afghanistan or Iraq. America could start by simply arming the rebels in the South and starting a UN offensive against the slave trade that seems to be centered in Sudan.
Posted by: Yank || 10/23/2003 13:57 Comments || Top||

#6  You are talking about a military offensive against the slavers, right? Nothing else will work, as far as I can tell, and, boy, can you imagine how much fun it would be watching the anti-Americans react to the US military going after slavers.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 10/23/2003 15:25 Comments || Top||

#7  and the have oil too! No Slaves for Oil!
Posted by: john || 10/23/2003 16:24 Comments || Top||

#8  RC, the thought of Michael Moore with spittle on his chin, raging about "US military aggression in Sudan" to stop the slave trade is a happy thought!
Posted by: Steve White || 10/23/2003 16:52 Comments || Top||

#9  Arm and organize the south (where the oil is) and the country would split into two along religious lines. A handful of CIA operatives and Special Forces could assist, we wouldn't need much more unless we decided to remove the government in Khartoum. The result would be a dirt poor northern Islamic half and a wealthy non-Islamic south. The end to the civil war and an end to Sudanese slavery.

Stopping the slavery, the use of starvation against the south, and support of terrorist organizations with a global reach (Hamas and Islamic Jihad which are based on two continents at least) are the rationals. It could be done on the cheap and send a serious message to any nations in Africa that are considering turning a blind eye to terrorists working in their country.
Posted by: Yank || 10/23/2003 17:59 Comments || Top||

#10  Of course if we go against the slavers we would get the bonus of watching the major media and people like A.N.S.W.E.R. and EU have a collective Aneurism as they try to figure out how to phrase it so the U.S. is protrayed as evil.....

That in itself might be worth the cost.
Posted by: CrazyFool || 10/23/2003 18:37 Comments || Top||

#11  While I believe war with Sudan is a good thing and should be done however there is a down-side in the fact there's tens of thousands Southerners in the North that would be trapped.And there is also the Nubians in Central and north Sudan,the Peoples of Darfur in the West and Beja in the East that need help as well.These groups are all allied with the rebels in the South
Posted by: Observer 80 || 10/23/2003 19:15 Comments || Top||

#12  Wait a miniute.... Didn't Billy-Boy Clinton apologize in Sudan for the U.S. taking (actually buying) slaves from Africa?
Posted by: CrazyFool || 10/23/2003 22:04 Comments || Top||

Middle East
Israeli army kills five Palestinians
Five Palestinians have been shot and killed by Isreali troops in different parts of the West Bank and Gaza and nearly 20 others have been arrested. Al-jazeera reported two Palestinians were killed early on Tuesday in Hebron and Qalqilya. Quoting Palestinian sources, the station said Israeli forces detained and then killed two other Palestinians in Gaza Strip. It said the the dead bodies were found near al-Buraij refugee camp, south Gaza.
"Yep. Nabbed 'em and then bumped 'em off. We seen it with our own eyes!"
One Palestinian was killed during the Israeli invasion into the West Bank cities of Ramallah and al-Beera on Tuesday. An Israeli military source has confirmed the first two killings. Describing the men as militants, the source in Jerusalem said they were killed while trying to escape after being told to stop for identity checks. In the first case the Palestinian, said to be linked to Yasir Arafat's Fatah movement, was found to be carrying a pistol and spare magazines, said the source. The second Palestinian was described as a militant of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine. Also overnight in the West Bank, 18 wanted Palestinians were arrested, the military source said. He added that four were activists of the Islamic Jihad movement and another was found to be in possession of a machine gun and magazines.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 10/23/2003 12:40 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [274 views] Top|| File under:

#1  5 dead in one day? That's one of the best hunts yet!
Posted by: Charles || 10/23/2003 13:07 Comments || Top||

#2  *BANG* "Halt!..."

"Oh, nice shot, Hilel!..."
Posted by: mojo || 10/23/2003 14:34 Comments || Top||

#3  I wonder what the 'spare magazines' were that the Paleo terrorist was carrying. "Murder Today", "Good Rocketkeeping", "Terropolitan", or was it the other kind of magazines.
Posted by: mhw || 10/23/2003 15:34 Comments || Top||

#4  Actually, it was "Better Guns and Ammo."
Posted by: Seafarious || 10/23/2003 16:14 Comments || Top||

#5  "Guns and Allah"?

Posted by: Raj || 10/23/2003 16:41 Comments || Top||

Paleos bump off two freedom fighters
Two Palestinians have been executed in public and a third has died of wounds sustained in a mysterious car explosion in the West Bank. Witnesses to the first incident said gunmen shot and killed the men, aged 21 and 25, after they had confessed to collaborating with Israeli intelligence. They said the gunmen played a videotape of the confessions to residents of the Tulkarm camp before executing the suspects in the street.
That always works so much better than a trial...
In the West Bank city of Nablus, medical officials said a 15-year-old activist from the al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades died of wounds sustained in a mysterious car explosion on Wednesday night. Palestinian security officials said the blast, which wounded two other people, may have been caused when a bomb detonated prematurely. But the officials did not rule out sabotage by Israeli intelligence.
Yup. It was prob'ly them Zionists as done it...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 10/23/2003 12:30 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [255 views] Top|| File under:

#1  " Now is it the blue wire or the red? "


" Damn those JOOOS! "
Posted by: Charles || 10/23/2003 13:05 Comments || Top||

Home Front
Wife, FBI agent testify at hearing for Yemen man accused of al-Qaida links
A Yemen native jailed on suspicion that he has links to al-Qaida terrorist organization associates said shortly after the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks that he knew a brother of one of the hijackers and approved of the attacks, an FBI agent told an immigration judge on Wednesday. Ashraf al-Jailani, a 39-year-old geochemist from Kent, Ohio, has spent nearly a year in the Berks County Prison outside Reading since his arrest by immigration agents. He appeared in court for a hearing on whether he should be released while he awaits a deportation hearing, but did not testify during the proceeding.
Just dump him...
Federal investigators first became interested in al-Jailani in 1999, when his business card was discovered with a suspected terrorist in New York, FBI agent Roger Charnesky told Immigration Judge Walter Durling. When they interviewed him in November of that year, however, he said he had "no idea" how the suspect obtained the card, said Charnesky, who is based in the agency's Akron office. Investigators later learned that someone had made calls from al-Jailani's home to numbers in New York City that were also called by another Yemen native who pleaded guilty in a money-laundering case involving millions of dollars used to purchase weapons and satellite communications equipment to aid al-Qaida's efforts. Agents learned from two friends of al-Jailani's wife that he and a fellow Yemeni who stayed with the couple in 2001 said they knew the brother of one of the hijackers aboard one of the two planes that hit the World Trade Center in the attacks and supported the effort. Adding up those pieces of information with other evidence demonstrated convincing ties between al-Jailani and al-Qaida, he said. "It's not a hunch. It's not a theory. It's just math," Charnesky said.
One hit's interesting, two hits is coincidence. Three hits and you've got a case...
Farhad Sethna, al-Jailani's attorney, sought to cast doubt on the investigators' theory, and asked, among other things, whether the FBI had conducted any further interviews. Charnesky said no. "In my experience, the expectation of receiving an honest answer from a co-conspirator is zero," he said.
Yes... There is that little point, isn't there?
Al-Jailani, a permanent legal resident, was arrested in October 2002 for deportation based on his no-contest plea to a 1998 domestic violence charge, in which he was accused of hitting Swensen in the face during an argument. He was granted a pardon by Ohio Gov. Bob Taft in 2001.
"It's a cultural thing, Governor! Honest!"
In March, Durling ordered al-Jailani released on $1,500 bail, but the Department of Homeland Security blocked his order, and a government immigration lawyer filed a motion in July asking Durling to revoke bail. Although no charges have been filed against al-Jailani, the federal government has kept him in custody as it investigates whether he has terrorist ties. Al-Jailani's wife, Michelle Swensen, testified during the hearing that her husband has "no links" to terrorists and should be released, even though their marriage has been troubled. "He's my husband, and I married him for life. I want to work things out," said Swensen, 33.
"I mean, it was my fault, y'r honor! I asked for it!"
In his questioning of Swensen, government immigration attorney Jeff Bubier sought to establish that al-Jailani should remain imprisoned because he posed a threat to her safety. She acknowledged that he kicked, slapped, and punched her on several occasions; threatened to kidnap the children and take them back to Yemen; and once threatened to dispose of her body in a vat of acid at GOJO Industries, a skin-care product manufacturer in Akron, where al-Jailani worked as a chemist. But under cross-examination by Sethna, Swensen also said he was a good father to their three children, routinely fixing their breakfast and playing with them.
A fine father. Other than threatening to dissolve her in a vat of acid, of course...
And even though he had a pattern of apologizing to her after any instances of abuse, Swensen said she was encouraged that he had recently expressed an interest in taking classes on domestic violence and parenting if he is released from jail. "He just has to be nice to me," Swensen said, adding that if he wasn't, she would "take my children and leave ... I have friends I can stay with."
"And if I should suddenly disappear, well... check the sludge in the bottom of the acid vat..."
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 10/23/2003 12:14 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [245 views] Top|| File under:

#1  This is classic enabler behavior on the part of abused women. Sigh.
Posted by: rkb || 10/23/2003 14:36 Comments || Top||

North Korea kills ’foreign’ babies
Refugees returning to North Korea face forced abortions in Kim Jong-il’s prison camps in a drive by the dictator to keep his people ’ethnically pure’, reports Richard Spencer in Beijing. Pregnant North Korean refugees repatriated after being rounded up in China have their babies forcibly aborted or killed after birth, according to a report that adds more horror to what is known of the Stalinist state’s gulags. Evidence from a number of women who have escaped from the prison camps of the North Korean dictator, Kim Jong-il, reveals a pattern of infanticide, principally due to concern that babies conceived outside the country might not be "ethnically pure".

The report, by the United States Committee for Human Rights in North Korea, a cross-party monitoring group, cites evidence from eight former inmates. One described how a guard took a baby away from a woman married to a Chinese and put him in a box nearby. A doctor then explained that since the country was short of food, it should not have to feed the children of foreign fathers. When the box was full of babies, it was taken away and buried, she said. It was not clear whether they were alive or dead at the time.

As many as 300,000 North Koreans have fled across the border with China. Many live secretly among the country’s ethnic Korean population, while some seek asylum in embassies or by making the long trip to Thailand, via Burma, to the south-west. Those who are discovered are regularly returned by the Chinese authorities, North Korea’s notional allies but in this case more concerned to prevent a mass exodus that might precipitate the Kim regime’s collapse. There, according to the committee’s report, they are put into special camps, where they are held for shorter periods than other detainees but treated even more brutally. One 25-year-old woman, Choi Yong-hwa, told the report’s author, David Hawk, a former United Nations human rights investigator, that she was assigned to help pregnant women. "The woman assisted by Choi was given a labour-inducing injection and shortly thereafter gave birth. While Choi watched in horror the baby was suffocated with a wet towel in front of the mother, who passed out in distress." A grandmother who was given a similar job watched seven babies delivered either naturally or as a result of an abortion-inducing drug. All were killed. Two had survived for two days before a guard "came by, and seeing that two of the babies were not dead yet, stabbed them with forceps at a soft spot in their skulls". According to the report, between 150,000 and 200,000 of North Korea’s population of 22 million are held in prison camps. Among their crimes are failing to care properly for photographs of Kim and his father Kim Il-sung, singing South Korean pop songs, and being the offspring of people executed as traitors.
Posted by: Bulldog || 10/23/2003 5:53:33 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [243 views] Top|| File under:

#1  So... uh... where the hell are the protesters? Where is Amnisty International?
Posted by: CrazyFool || 10/23/2003 8:51 Comments || Top||

#2  So... uh... where the hell are the protesters? Where is Amnisty International?

CF, those jackholes are too busy getting ready for their "big protests" this weekend up in San Fran & DC to care about this.
Posted by: Jarhead || 10/23/2003 9:04 Comments || Top||

#3  Now, now. We can't force our cultural mores on another indigenous people. That would reek of imperialism... and that's a bad thing.
Ethnic purity? Didn't some guy try that concept in the 30's and 40's? How'd that work out?
Posted by: tu3031 || 10/23/2003 9:19 Comments || Top||

#4  Full report at
Makes Solzhenitsyn's Gulag Archipelago, look like a sunday school picnic.
Posted by: tipper. || 10/23/2003 9:28 Comments || Top||

#5  Welcome to the Asia division of Planned Parenthood.
Posted by: Mike || 10/23/2003 10:06 Comments || Top||

#6  Soups on!
Posted by: Shipman || 10/23/2003 10:19 Comments || Top||

#7  yea someone in the 30's and 40's tried that and it failed only because civilised countries stood agaisnt tryanny...
Posted by: Dan || 10/23/2003 11:27 Comments || Top||

#8  So, he can expect an award from NOW?
Posted by: Highlander || 10/23/2003 12:13 Comments || Top||

#9  Dan,

And it would have worked too if it weren't for these meddling kids......

After all Kimmie-boy only kills human babies! It isn't as if he is beating baby seals or anything.
Posted by: CrazyFool || 10/23/2003 12:21 Comments || Top||

#10  Ok, forget Iran for the moment, NK need to be next. I'm sure we don't even need to keep occuping soldiers there too. The SK will be happy to do that.
Posted by: Charles || 10/23/2003 13:00 Comments || Top||

#11  The ehtnic purity theme mixed with pictures of Kim is an odd juxtoposition. Somebody out to send 25 millions plastic flower pots to NK. They are in deevolution. Devo needs to tour their country. Whip it good.
Posted by: Super Hose || 10/23/2003 21:36 Comments || Top||

Abu Ayat jugged in Baku and turned over to the US
From Time Magazine’s Euro edition from October 13...
The last of the al-Qaeda operatives from Georgia’s Pankisi Valley still being sought by the U.S. was arrested in the Azeri capital of Baku in a secret operation in September, security officials in the Caucasus told TIME.
Unless they’ve already caught Abu Khabab and Abu Walid, I wouldn’t say that he’s the last. Abu Iyad likewise remains unaccounted for, though JUS said he was running the mujahideen in Iraq so perhaps he was killed during the fighting ...
Abu Ayat was an alleged explosives specialist who claimed to be close to Osama bin Laden and had been on the run for over a year. He was handed over to the U.S., local officials say, and has probably been transferred to Guantánamo Bay.
He’s a pretty obscure fellow, but he did merit a mention in Collin Powell’s UN presentation that lists him as a minion of Zarqawi’s named Abu Atiya.
Posted by: Dan Darling || 10/23/2003 1:32:16 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [245 views] Top|| File under:

#1  "The last of the al-Qaeda operatives from Georgia’s Pankisi Valley..." The last? Really? That's hard to believe. The Caucases passes are closing in Chechnya, don't the jihadis hibernate in Pankisi over the winter?
Posted by: Pete Stanley || 10/23/2003 1:42 Comments || Top||

#2  Perhaps all the other Abus have already gone on to greener pastures, like Iraq, and the CIA has become aware of it.
Posted by: Paul Moloney || 10/23/2003 8:06 Comments || Top||

#3  Abu Khabab is deceased.
Posted by: TerrorHunter4Ever || 10/23/2003 8:48 Comments || Top||

#4  abu khabab!!!!

on a spit with rice and pita, I hope:)
Posted by: liberalhawk || 10/23/2003 9:37 Comments || Top||

#5  I must have missed this, when was Abu Khabab killed?
Posted by: Dan Darling || 10/23/2003 9:54 Comments || Top||

#6  Dan: Abu Khabab was KIA in May 2002. I have a photo of him laid out on a slab. He isn't smiling as he no doubt had found out by that point that the promise of all those virgins in paradise was b.s.
Posted by: TerrorHunter4Ever || 10/23/2003 11:20 Comments || Top||

#7  Allow me a minor edit to my earlier response....the Chechen in question (cited originally in the comments imbedded in the article) is actually Ibn Khattab (or Abu Khattab). He is the dead man. Abu Khabab is a totally different person. He's an Egyptian whose real name is Midhat Mursi. He is one of Binny's weapons experts. He loves to play with chemicals, explosives, and other nasty stuff and was last seen in the area of the Darunta complex in Afghanistan circa November 2001. He is still at large. Sorry for the confusion.
Posted by: TerrorHunter4Ever || 10/23/2003 11:59 Comments || Top||

#8  Here's the Rantburg report on Khattab.
Posted by: Seafarious || 10/23/2003 14:31 Comments || Top||

Terrorist Rebel warlord Gelayev not in Georgia - Shevardnadze
Georgian President Eduard Shevardnadze denies that Chechen rebel commander Ruslan Gelayev has bought a house in Rustavi and is currently staying in Georgia. "Gelayev knows our attitude toward him. He knows that the purchase of a house would work against him, and he also knows that Chechens must not cross the Georgian border," Shevardnadze said.
Unfortunately, this is the same warlord that Shevardnadze has been praising as a hero for the last year or so. The Georgians have made little if any effort to control the influx of Chechens and assorted jihadis.
There are no rebels or terrorists in the Pankisi Gorge, he said. Shevardnadze added though that "Three Chechens had been detained on the border, and they will be transferred to Russia." He did not say who the Chechens were.
Unless it’s somebody sufficiently high-ranking, I’m not going to be impressed. Abu Khabab, al-Qaeda’s resident mad scientist, is said to be hiding out in Georgia and brewing up all kinds of nasty stuff in that damned gorge, one of the reasons why I tend to side with the Russians on this one.
Posted by: Dan Darling || 10/23/2003 1:26:26 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [258 views] Top|| File under:

#1  "Gelayev knows our attitude toward him. He knows that the purchase of a house would work against him,"

"he should know about our policies on real estate tax assessments, our lack of mortgage interest deductions etc. The man's insane if he's not renting!"
Posted by: liberalhawk || 10/23/2003 9:40 Comments || Top||

Home Front
John Allen Muhammad Speaks!!!
DC Sniper suspect and Screaming Moonbat John Allen Muhammad was going to be his own lawyer, but then changed his mind. Good thing too, if this, his opening statement, was any indication. EFL’d like you wouldn’t believe, read the whole thing.
"...Well, the whole truth. What is the whole truth? The whole truth, what I found out when I asked that is, Don’t take anything away from the truth, which means when we take something away from it, it’s not a whole anymore. If we do that, that’s a lie. If we do that, we are deceiving. What’s nothing but the truth? Well, that means you don’t add nothing to the truth. If we do that, we [are] deceiving. We are telling a lie, so this is why it’s important that we tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth. But how do we jump from the truth to the whole truth to nothing but the truth when at one time all we had was the truth? Jesus said, "You shall know the truth." He didn’t say you shall know the whole truth and nothing but the truth. The truth. For what happened between that time and this time to where we got to deal with three truths?"
"Um, John?...could you repeat everything after, ’Well, the whole truth’? My pencil broke."
"Babble babble babble babble babble babble babble babble babble babble..."
"...Now, how can that be so? Well, let me give you an example. It’s kind of like this. If I say I don’t like basketball, that’s my opinion. I don’t like basketball. But if someone else come along and says, I like basketball, then in actuality what he just said is what I said, but it’s not the whole truth of what I said. He left something out. Therefore, it cannot be considered the truth. It’s a lie."
"But I don’t like basketball. Therefore, it’s not a lie, you forensic freakin’ wonder..."
"...In the Caribbean we call -- there is two lies that we call. We say it’s a wicked lie and an insane lie. It’s a wicked liar and an insane liar. What’s the difference between a liar who tells the lie and a wicked liar and an insane liar?"
Hint, John - do a mirror check and you’lll get all of those answered.
"...Mr. Muhammad this and Mr. Muhammad that. He took away a lot of people’s rights. We actually thought we had a choice. Dirty glass number one or dirty glass number two and then we were forced — out there I’m sure you all were forced to pick, thinking you really had a choice. Dirty glass number one, dirty glass number two. That’s not a choice. A real choice will be between dirty glass number one or a clean glass; and for the next couple days, the next couple of hours, it is my responsibility to set a clean glass of what really happened on those days alongside this dirty glass; and because it’s the nature of a man to choose and to want to choose what is right, I don’t have to tell anyone that the glass is clean. Just because you want to drink out of a clean glass, you pick it. The only reason you would drink out of a dirty glass is because you thought you had a choice between dirty glass number one and dirty glass number two. You really didn’t have a choice."
Ah...let’s go back to the whole truth thing. It made more sense."
Cheezy hodie! It sounds like James Joyce with a head injury...
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski || 10/23/2003 1:17:55 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [308 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Better check his meds. I wonder if there were any books on abnormal psychology found in connection with Mr. Babbler here.

Call me a cynic.
Posted by: mojo || 10/23/2003 2:02 Comments || Top||

#2  This guy makes Massoui look like Perry Mason.
Posted by: Tokyo Taro || 10/23/2003 3:26 Comments || Top||

#3  Poor guy, just needs a good deprogrammer.
Posted by: Anonymous || 10/23/2003 5:33 Comments || Top||

#4  Who gives a sh#t what this a-hole has to say......time to fire up ole' sparky.
Posted by: Jarhead || 10/23/2003 6:13 Comments || Top||

#5  He sounds like Mojo-Jojo from The Powerpuff Girls.
"I am John Allen Muhammed, yes, that is to say, I am John, but not only John, but John Allen Muhammed, therefore you shall call me, because it is my name, John Allen Muhammed."
Love how he brings up Jesus too, because he is muslim, he thinks bringing up Jesus will make all the infidel like him, and have mercy upon him.
What a dickhead.
Too bad he wasn't spending more time learning about Jesus instead of shooting innocent men, women and children.
(or inciting a teenage boy, who he probably was molesting, to shoot them)

Posted by: TS || 10/23/2003 8:52 Comments || Top||

#6  He's just setting up his, "you can't fry me. I'm mentally impaired" defense. Waddaya wanna bet that his on-again, off-again lawyers set up the whole scenario.
Posted by: Mercutio || 10/23/2003 14:49 Comments || Top||

#7  I'd like to say that i feel sorry for John Allen, everyone is making fun of him and making jokes, but this is serious, His wife abused him somewhat, because we've only heard her side, we haven't heard his side of how it REALLY was in the marriage, John doesn't need the death penalty, John needs to stay under a therapist, because he just needs someone to help him, and to tell you the truth the reason why he's this way is because of white people, because somewhere somehow, a white person must have did something to hurt him him SO bad, that it made him now hate white people, because from what i heard, on the news John told Lee Malvo, they wanted to make a world that didn't oppress Blacks, and John hated white people, John i feel sorry for ya, because john needs help, and he needs to learn not all white people are bad, but since "Virginia" gave him the death penalty, sure that may be giving relief to the families of the victims but what about John? how does that help him, he needs help, give him Life in prison, but while he's there keep him under a therapist so he can get help, so he won't be feeling the way he does now in prison.
Posted by: Anonymous || 12/09/2003 11:55 Comments || Top||

Africa: North
More on the GSPC communique from yesterday ...
The largest Islamic extremist group active in Algeria’s civil war has for the first time officially announced a formal link with Al Qaeda, the global network led by Osama bin Laden.
Thereby confirming what most of us should have already known ...
The Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat (GSPC) announced its allegiance to Al Qaeda in a brief statement obtained by AFP on Wednesday, which was dated September 11, 2003. "The GSPC announces to the world in general and to Muslims in particular its allegiance to all Muslims and to fighting to the glory of God in Palestine and in Afghanistan under the direction of Mullah Omar [the spiritual leader of the Taliban] and of the Al Qaeda organisation of Osama bin Laden," the statement said.
September 11, 2003? Did it travel by camel to AFP?

All kidding aside, if the date is accurate and not simply for symbolic value that would mean that the GSPC folded back into al-Qaeda the same time as the Yemeni and Saudi groups that also merged with it and that we’re only hearing about it now.

On October 14, Algerian newspapers reported that GSPC founding leader Hassan Hattab had been replaced as leader by Nabil Sahraoui, alias Abou Ibrahim Mustapha, also a founding member of the organisation. Four days later a media report claimed the report was untrue and that Hattab was still active in northeast Algeria.
Lies, all lies!

That would mean that either Sahraoui is running the show and somebody hasn’t gotten the memo yet (the communique was in his name) or that some kind of power struggle is going on inside the GSPC between Sahraoui and Hattab, possibly over the recent Algerian attacks on the GSPC HQ. Sahraoui is said to be al-Qaeda’s sock puppet in Algeria (which is pretty much what I always considered Hattab to be), so if there was a falling out God willing they’ll wipe each other out.
Posted by: Dan Darling || 10/23/2003 1:18:58 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [254 views] Top|| File under:

Latin America
Trial Urged for Bolivia’s Former Leader
A key Communist opposition leader argued Wednesday that the former Bolivian president forced from office last week should face charges for his government’s bloody attempts to quell weeks of street protests. Congressman Evo Morales, the leader of Bolivia’s coca leaf farmers and assorted leftist thugs, asked a federal prosecutor to charge Gonzalo Sanchez de Lozada with ``genocide’’ after dozens of people died in street rioting.
’rioting’ being the key word.
The attorney general’s office confirmed the filing of the legal action against Sanchez de Lozada, who resigned last Friday before fleeing to the United States. The complaint is expected to be examined by Congress, which has the authority to decide whether further legal action is warranted. Under Bolivia’s constitution, any investigation would require approval by two-thirds of the 130 lawmakers in the lower house. If approved, the case would then go the Senate, which would act as judge in any proceeding. Human rights groups have criticized Bolivia’s military and police for what they said was the government’s heavy-handed response to the protests. Days of clashes brought stick-wielding demonstrators into confrontation with heavily armed police and soldiers.
Wield a stick against a police officer? Don’t that carry a certain understood element of risk?
On Wednesday, Bolivia’s Human Rights Assembly said as many as 80 people may have died in the protests. Police have confirmed only 42 deaths. Separately, State Prosecutor Antonio Santamaria said his office has opened an investigation to determine the final death toll. ``There are some people who disappeared, and some victims have not been reported because they had no relatives,’’ said Sacha Llorenti, secretary of the independent Human Rights Assembly.
That didn’t stop them from coming out to riot.
Sanchez de Lozada had no immediate public comment on Morales’ accusations. After he resigned last Friday, he flew to Washington amid concerns about his safety. In an interview Monday with Associated Press Television News, Sanchez de Lozada said he would remain in the United States for a while ``because at this moment my family and myself could be victims of an attempt on our lives and this worries me.’’
Sounds like a reasonable concern.
Posted by: Steve White || 10/23/2003 1:01:54 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [242 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Couldn't he have gone to Mexico or someplace? I'd give the guy asylum but if you're trying to undo the widely held belief that all pro-business and pro-trade leaders are simply puppets of Yanqui Imperialismo, this move doesn't seem to accomplish much.
Posted by: Tokyo Taro || 10/23/2003 1:07 Comments || Top||

#2  So now twelve people dead in a riot are "victims of genocide"? Does this mean we can charge the people of South-Central LA with genocide for the 50 people who died during the 1992 LA riots?

Or is this yet another example of the left destroying a word by using it as a club against their enemies?
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 10/23/2003 7:09 Comments || Top||

#3  Tokyo Taro--His individual rights are absolute. If the people of Bolivia choose to believe he's a Yankee puppet, that's their problem, not his. Mr. Sanchez de Lozada should not sacrifice his welfare on their behalf.
Posted by: Sorge || 10/23/2003 10:48 Comments || Top||

#4  He is guilty. He is guilty of making a coherent proposal to stimulate their moribund economy. For this crime, he shall be sentenced to hang out in the Doll House and oggle women 1/4 of his age.

The guy tried to do something rational in Bolivia. He had to know it wouldn't work. The damn country has annointed the union head of the drug growers association as their leader. At least Noriega was in management.
Posted by: Super Hose || 10/23/2003 21:44 Comments || Top||

N. Korea Buys Weapons Despite Paleolithic Poor Economy
Despite its economic plight, North Korea has bought $400 million worth of second-hand fighter jets, submarine parts and other weapons in the past five years, South Korea’s Defense Ministry said Thursday. The communist state exported at least $110 million worth of Scud-type missiles and missile parts to Iraq, Yemen, Iran, Pakistan and Syria over the same period, said the ministry in a report to the National Assembly.
Never know when a ship carrying Scuds will run into an errant Silkworm. Wotta shame that would be.
The United States has designated North Korea as a top proliferator of missile technology. Missiles sales provide the country with badly needed cash, which possibly finances its known self-confessed suspected development of nuclear weapons. According to Defense Ministry data, North Korea purchased an unspecified number of second-hand MiG fight jets and parts, armored vehicles, submarine parts, helicopters, tank and ship engines, anti-airplane guns, ammunition, radar and communications equipment.
Second-hand MiG jets — I’d love to see the maintenance logs on those.
The weapons originated in Russia, China, Germany, Slovakia, Austria, Belarus and Japan, the ministry said.
Japan? JAPAN? What the ...
North Korea sold $60 million worth of Scud missiles and missile parts to Yemen, Syria, Iran and Iraq last year. It also sold Yemen, Pakistan and Syria a combined $30 million in missile technology in 1999 and $20 million in 2001, it said. Last December, a shipment of North Korean Scud missiles bound for Yemen was briefly stopped in the Arabian Sea as a U.S. warning against the North’s role in missile proliferation.
I’m sure Saddam has a bunch of left-over Silkworms. We ought to try them out sometime. Maybe they CAN hit the broadside of a North Korean freighter carrying Scuds barn.
Posted by: Steve White || 10/23/2003 12:55:47 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [304 views] Top|| File under:

#1  The Migs will get the crap kicked out of them by our F-14's. They've never lost a dogfight yet.

And those were top of the line Migs we incinerated. The ones NK recieved are just supposed to be second-hand Migs.
Posted by: Charles || 10/23/2003 1:46 Comments || Top||

#2  *To The Tune of 'Secondhand Rose*
"Secondhand MiGs
Secondhand MiGs
They will get whacked like
Secondhand PiGs..."

Posted by: Mike Kozlowski || 10/23/2003 11:12 Comments || Top||

#3  not too many f-14's left - I think it is only one squadron. the f-18 is the workhorse now...
Posted by: Dan || 10/23/2003 11:30 Comments || Top||

#4  Maybe the Japanese weapons are left over from the occupation during and before WW2? Couple of Zeros, some Type 97 tanks...
Posted by: OminousWhatever || 10/23/2003 11:41 Comments || Top||

#5  We have plenty of F-14's left. They're the best fighter jet in the world to this day.
Posted by: Charles || 10/23/2003 13:01 Comments || Top||

#6  When I was in Okinawa we had a contingency plan for a NKor invasion of the South. Our intel said that NKor were boasting they had about 10,000+ artillery pieces within striking distance of Seoul. That's a staggering number, but considering they haven't had the $ to upkeep them for 50 yrs, we figure close to 80% are combat in-effective (at least). I'd guess this would apply to any air frame they purchase. It's not how much you have, it's the ability to maintain it in perfect working order that makes the difference in a fight. The U.S. is the best in the world at this despite what many uninformed people think.
Posted by: Jarhead || 10/23/2003 15:20 Comments || Top||

#7  Tom Turkey is what the pilots call a "grape". Squeeze it once and all the momentum comes out of it. All swing-wing aircraft are garbage.
Posted by: Pete Stanley || 10/23/2003 15:31 Comments || Top||

#8  Now, now Pete, perhaps thee are thinking of the early versions? Are thee familiar with the F14-D? I understand the thrust/weight ratio/time is verily improved. Are thee familiar with the new radar? Give us the goods! Tell all! :)

Posted by: Shipman || 10/23/2003 20:21 Comments || Top||

#9  Japan? JAPAN? What the ...

No weapons per se. The NKs (through their agents) were buying parts, components, communications equipment, etc. and shipping them back via their weekly ferry visit. That was partly why the Japanese detained the NorK ferry for safety violations a month or so back.
Posted by: Pappy || 10/23/2003 22:20 Comments || Top||

Middle East
Cover-Up Alleged in Probe of USS Liberty
My comments are below
A former Navy attorney who helped lead the military investigation of the 1967 Israeli attack on the USS Liberty that killed 34 American servicemen says former President Lyndon Johnson and his defense secretary, Robert McNamara, ordered that the inquiry conclude the incident was an accident. In a signed affidavit released at a Capitol Hill news conference, retired Capt. Ward Boston said Johnson and McNamara told those heading the Navy’s inquiry to "conclude that the attack was a case of ’mistaken identity’ despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary."

Boston was senior legal counsel to the Navy’s original 1967 review of the attack. He said in the sworn statement that he stayed silent for years because he’s a military man, and "when orders come ... I follow them." He said he felt compelled to "share the truth" following the publication of a recent book, "The Liberty Incident," which concluded the attack was unintentional.

The USS Liberty was an electronic intelligence-gathering ship that was cruising international waters off the Egyptian coast on June 8, 1967. Israeli planes and torpedo boats opened fire on the Liberty at what became known as the outbreak of the Israeli-Egyptian Six-Day War. In addition to the 34 Americans killed, more than 170 were wounded. Calls to the Navy seeking comment were not immediately returned.

Israel has long maintained that the attack was a case of mistaken identity, an explanation that the Johnson administration did not formally challenge. Israel claimed its forces thought the ship was an Egyptian vessel and apologized to the United States. After the attack, a Navy court of inquiry concluded there was insufficient information to make a judgment about why Israel attacked the ship, stopping short of assigning blame or determining whether it was an accident. It was "one of the classic all-American cover-ups," said Ret. Adm. Thomas Moorer, a former Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman who spent a year investigating the attack as part of an independent panel he formed with other former military officials. The panel also included a former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia, James Akins. "Why would our government put Israel’s interests ahead of our own?" Moorer asked from his wheelchair at the news conference. He was chief of naval operations at the time of the attack. Moorer, who has long held that the attack was a deliberate act, wants Congress to investigate.

Israeli Embassy spokesman Mark Regev disputed any notion that Israel knowingly went after American sailors. "I can say unequivocally that the Liberty tragedy was a terrible accident, that the Israeli pilots involved believed they were attacking an enemy ship," Regev said. "This was in the middle of a war. This is something that we are not proud of."

In Boston’s statement, he does not say why Johnson would have ordered a cover-up. Attempts were made to reach Boston at his home in Coronado, Calif., but he did not return calls seeking comment. Moorer’s panel suggested several possible reasons Israel might have wanted to attack a U.S. ship. Among them: Israel intended to sink the ship and blame Egypt because it might have brought the United States into the 1967 war.
Posted by: Penguin || 10/23/2003 12:38:42 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [318 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Several weeks ago, the Jerusalem Post published an article by Yiftah Spector of the IAF who was the pilot who led the attack on the Liberty. He talked extensively on how they thought it was an Egyptian ship. I can't find the article, but this talks abot it. Link

Spector is also the most senior officer that signed the protest letter against using the IAF against Palestinians. Here is a link.

I will leave the obvious Zionist international conspiracy linkages to the experts.

The big question to me is if there was a cover-up by the US Government, what was its purpose?

- Was the conclusion made because of the USS Pueblo Incident? U.S.S. Pueblo was attacked by the North Koreans on 23 January, 1968. Any condemnation of the Liberty incident would show that lessons learned were lost on Pueblo. Pretty damning to DoD, at a time when Vietnam was very hot and their plate was full.

-Was the cover-up made because of Sixth Fleet’s appalling response to the Liberty? And it was embarrassing?

"Moorer's panel suggested several possible reasons Israel might have wanted to attack a U.S. ship. Among them: Israel intended to sink the ship and blame Egypt because it might have brought the United States into the 1967 war."

This seems a bit ludicrous. The Liberty attack occurred on the fourth day of the six day war. Things were fairly sewn up. Jerusalem was already taken. Arab Air Forces destroyed.

Moorer was CNO at the time and became CJS afterwards. How can he talk of conspiracy without looking in the mirror? He could have done something about it then. As an Ensign, Moorer was at Pearl Harbor. He should know of investigations and their cover-ups.

And why did Ward Boston wait so long? He did a major disservice to those sailors who were killed and wounded.
Posted by: Penguin || 10/23/2003 0:53 Comments || Top||

... spent a year investigating the attack as part of group of nuts an independent panel he formed with other former military officials.

Hmmmm. Independent?

The panel also included a former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia, James Akins.

Double Hmmmmm. Saudi connections?

Moorer’s panel suggested several possible reasons Israel might have wanted to attack a U.S. ship. Among them: Israel intended to sink the ship and blame Egypt because it might have brought the United States into the 1967 war.

Oh those Jooooos!

Posted by: Tokyo Taro || 10/23/2003 1:02 Comments || Top||

#3  Why did the US cover-up the incident? Before 1968, Congress prohibited the sale of arms to Israel. About the time of the incident, a bill was working its way through Congress to allow the sale of arms to Israel. The incident was covered up to prevent public outrage at Israel. The cover-up worked, the bill passed, and the next year, sales to Israel were about $600 million. This tripled to about $1.8 billion within 3 years.

Why did Israel attack? The moment the USS Liberty came over the horizon, it was line of sight with an Israel prisoner of war camp. The IDF at the time was eliminating "POWs" and other civilians and were worried that the Liberty had visual and audio of the event.

Who helped rescue the survivors of the Liberty? Interestingly enough, despite Israeli and other US ships in the area, the first ship to give aid to the wounded soldiers was a Russian governtment vessel.

What's behind all this? As has been shown in recent corporate scandals and incidents of treason, greed trumps national loyalty every time. Remember, that our armed forces have been directed since 1898 to defend national interests, read: American business interests. Businesses (like the military industrial complex) have no problem making a few sacrifices to fatten up the bottom line. The true purpose, as expressed in the oaths of soldiers and officers, is to "support and defend the Constituion." This has been twisted by the executive branch to include proping up American businesses.
Posted by: Mr. Torrent || 10/23/2003 1:50 Comments || Top||

#4  Yes, lets blame Isreal for everything. I bet if we look at Moorer back-ground we'll discover he's a major Paleo supporter.

That, and this guys name sounds familiar..... Has he brought up conspiracy theories before?
Posted by: Charles || 10/23/2003 1:52 Comments || Top||

#5  Mr. Torrent--
The IDF at the time was eliminating "POWs" and other civilians and were worried that the Liberty had visual and audio of the event.

I read accounts that this occurred in El Arish, now in Egyptian hands. If this is true, why were the gravesites examined by the Egyptians? It is the desert, things last a long time.
Posted by: Penguin || 10/23/2003 2:18 Comments || Top||

#6  Correction
Mr. Torrent-- The IDF at the time was eliminating "POWs" and other civilians and were worried that the Liberty had visual and audio of the event. I read accounts that this occurred in El Arish, now in Egyptian hands. If this is true, why weren't the gravesites examined by the Egyptians? It's the desert, buried things last a long time.
Posted by: Penguin || 10/23/2003 2:25 Comments || Top||

#7  it is one thing to support Israel... but at the expense of our men....Americans died for heavens sake.....we help Israel and not vice versa.....6 billion a year and all we still get is cover-ups
Posted by: stevestradamus || 10/23/2003 3:41 Comments || Top||

#8  I tried telling you guys, the jews are up to no good! oh and... Bush is a jew
Posted by: Mahathir M. || 10/23/2003 3:53 Comments || Top||

#9  Steve- I agree, but what is the cover-up? Placing blame for the wrong reason does no one any good, especially those who died and were wounded.

Everyone yells conspiracy. Sometimes shit happens in war. Sometimes even in peace. Examples abound.

Conspiracies are hard to maintain and keep secret.
Posted by: Penguin || 10/23/2003 4:08 Comments || Top||

#10  ive seen interviews with survivors who said Israel knew they were Americans...i wonder if America would have been so understanding if Iraq also had such a blunder
Posted by: stevestradamus || 10/23/2003 4:12 Comments || Top||

#11  WTF is this crap doing here? Was there a sudden influx of Indymedia types?

Oh, and "stevestradamus", look up the "USS Stark". Asshat.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 10/23/2003 7:13 Comments || Top||

#12  How would the survivors know that the Israeli pilots knew?

We've seen many tragic "friendly fire" incidents over the last 2 years - some imfamous like the death of the Canadians hit by Ameircan planes during a night time live fire training exercise in Afghanistan. I'm sure there are some who believe it was ordered deliberately to punish Canada for its less than subservient stance in the WOT.

The Liberty incident is hardly any different except that Israel is involved and, as we have seen illustrated clearly this week by President Mahathir, there is no shortage of people in the world who will automatically ascribe nefarious motives to all things Jewish.Israelis are not capable of horrific blunders because they are all-powerful, all-knowing and all-controlling (manipulating).

It was all a clever plot, ya see. They had to cover for their War crimes so they deliberately attack a U.S. Navy ship, knowing they could fool and bribe the Americans into doing nothing. Risk alienating their one ally in the world? What risk! They pull the strings! Attack the American ship! Bwahahaha!
Posted by: Tokyo Taro || 10/23/2003 7:31 Comments || Top||

#13  Mr. Torrent, while it may indeed be possible that there was a cover-up, your spew of pre-packaged, generic, "rage-against-the-big-man makes it clear that you are just a "little-man-of-rage" with no chance of knowing what really happened. Go take off your tin-foil hat, it's frying your brain.

Tokyo Taro, The Big Jew Conspiracy(TM)is a tired ol schtick that will only backfire in the US. It will divide the left and result in a greater conservative government. Bwahahahahahah!
Posted by: B || 10/23/2003 7:53 Comments || Top||

#14  We have no doubt of the motives of the Arabs when they attacked US ships. Killing far more.

Libya attacking U.S. warships in international waters off of its coast. That was deliberate no doubt about that.

Lets not forget a certain Pan Am flight and the Iranians.

Recently the USS Cole was struck by a boat piloted by two suicide bombers.

They were deliberate.
Posted by: Bernardz || 10/23/2003 8:01 Comments || Top||

#15  I suspect the Federal Reserve had something to do with the coverup.
Posted by: Shipman || 10/23/2003 8:05 Comments || Top||

#16  Greenspan? I knew it!
Posted by: Mahathir M. || 10/23/2003 8:35 Comments || Top||

#17  Er B, I was being sarcastic in my remarks in italics. I thought it was clear. But then I should be more careful since there are so many barking moonbats beyond parody.
Posted by: Tokyo Taro || 10/23/2003 9:41 Comments || Top||

#18  IIRC the JPost article, which I read, also chronicled the release to the press of the controller-pilots conversation prior to the attack, and there was confusion, it was mistaken for an Egyptian ship that had left Lebanon, I'll have to look it up in my "6 days of War" book by Oren as well. Sounds like this guy's got an axe to grind - note that he has no proof it was deliberate, just wants an investigation again

Stevey, you were doing so well....back on the meds
Posted by: Frank G || 10/23/2003 9:46 Comments || Top||

#19  stevestradamus: it is one thing to support Israel... but at the expense of our men....Americans died for heavens sake.....we help Israel and not vice versa.....6 billion a year and all we still get is cover-ups

Let's see, we helped South Vietnam and South Korea at the cost of 100,000 lives. Were there friendly fire incidents? Probably. Each war cost us 2-3% of our annual defense budget. In current dollars, we are talking about 200-300 billion dollars annually. The interest alone on a single year's war appropriations for either Korea or Vietnam dwarfs the 6 billion dollars we provide in aid to Israel. But that's not all - in Korea, our boys are serving as a tripwire force to deter the North Koreans in case they cross the DMZ. 37,000 troops on the front lines - that's about 4 to 5 billions dollars worth of protection annually. And that's not even counting the cost of coming to the rescue if the South Koreans are attacked.

From a strategic standpoint, Israel is much more important than South Korea, or any of our NATO allies for one simple reason - proximity to oil. Israel is the one country through which American troops are guaranteed a staging area if the Mid East situation gets shot to hell. In helping Israel, we are helping ourselves. Note that our actions in helping to feed Muslims in Somalia and rescuing them in Bosnia and Kosovo have gotten no credit from the Muslim world, which sees them as part of an American war on Islam. This is why it makes sense to ally ourselves with Israel - it is a strong and dependable ally - a shining exception in a vital but hostile region that chooses enmity with America as a way of life.
Posted by: Zhang Fei || 10/23/2003 9:58 Comments || Top||

#20  U.S.S. Liberty attacked by a 'fully cloaked' Romulan battlecruiser...
Posted by: borgboy || 10/23/2003 10:22 Comments || Top||

#21  TT - sorry. I've been exposed for my hurried scanning.

It's easy to see why this issue is coming to the surface right now. And you can predict where it will go. Israel was willing to kill American soldiers in the hope that it would get their involvement in the 1967 conflict. And after they did it, America was willing to cover it up. Therefore, in moonbat logic, we can then make the ass-umption that Israel also committed 9-11, to get American involvement (don't ask me how that works exactly, I don't understand; ask a moonbat), and America would again cover it up.

The two military men should be ashamed of themselves for allowing themselves to be used in this fashion. They should take a real hard look at how they came to make the decision to go public on this right now. They should wonder if perhaps they weren't influenced by individuals whose motives were to use them to further the Islamofanatic cause. Truly sad.
Posted by: B || 10/23/2003 11:10 Comments || Top||

#22  B, the problem isn't that they were influenced or tricked. The problem is they WANTED to do this. We may see it as a shameful act, but they see it as Isreal-bashing and supporting the Paleos.
Posted by: Charles || 10/23/2003 12:56 Comments || Top||

#23  Blue-on-blue accidents happen. Its horrible but not something you would cover up. The trouble with the incident is the crew thought for sure the pilots could see the American flag. Maybe they didn't.
Posted by: Yank || 10/23/2003 12:57 Comments || Top||

#24  The trouble with the incident is the crew thought for sure the pilots could see the American flag.

Anyone can run up an American flag* - false-flagging is one of the oldest maneuvers in the book. The point here is that DoD is supposed to have confirmed to the Israelis that there were no American ships in the area.

* The Germans operated Q-ships during WWII that did precisely this.
Posted by: Zhang Fei || 10/23/2003 13:37 Comments || Top||

#25  There's one possibility that hasn't been brought up here and discussed. I toss it out for discussion, not as what I believe or what others should accept as real - just a possibility that needs to be considered.

The Liberty was an intelligence-gathering ship. I'm sure every frequency was being scanned and recorded, both those of the Israelis and those of the Egyptians, Syrians, Jordanians, and whoever else was involved. There are rumors - unsubstantiated AFAIK, that some of those intercepts were making their way back to Egypt. The Russians also had an intelligence-gathering ship in the general area - perhaps the same one that made first contact with the sailors of the Liberty. It wouldn't take much of a screw-up to attack the wrong Intelligence ship. The Russians are very good at 'spoofing', and could have been sending signals to Egypt, using Liberty call-signs and frequencies. The Liberty incident could be just another in a long list of "incidents" that occurred during the Cold War - on both sides, both involving the national forces of the two major opponents, and their surrogates. We may never know for sure. Should we bring it up, discuss it, try to learn from it? Of course, not only this incident, but all incidents. We have to accept, however, that our discussion, the discussion of the "Moorer morons", this latest blab by another Navy moonbat, nor anyone else, will not make any difference to the victims of those "incidents", nor prevent other incidents from happening in the future - I.E., the Chinese and our EP-3A.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 10/23/2003 13:41 Comments || Top||

#26  Zhang Fei, I agree and that explains the Israelis response and continual request for assurance that the Americans didn't have a ship in the area if they did see a flag. Something as small as a flag might be difficult to see from a jet fighter so there is also the chance they simply did not see it. Either way I think its an excusable tragedy.

My point is the survivors simply haven't accepted that fact. In their grief they expect either perfection, or explain away mistakes and misjudgements as a coverup.
Posted by: Yank || 10/23/2003 13:54 Comments || Top||

#27  ------------------
i wonder if America would have been so understanding if Iraq also had such a blunder

Just a reminder that this actually happened in the late 80s. While the US was patrolling the Persian Gulf to protect the flow of oil from the Middle East, an Iraqi jet hit an American frigate with an Exocet missile. Unfortunately, I can't remember the name of the ship that was hit off the top of my head.

The Iraqis apologized, and also beheaded the pilot, iirc - although I doubt the latter influenced US policy on the issue much. This was also during the period of time in which the Iraqis were getting some support from the US during the war with Iran.
Posted by: junior || 10/23/2003 15:29 Comments || Top||

Stevey, you were doing so well....back on the meds -- Frank G.

I'm reminded of the movie, Real Genius...

Professor Hathaway: Bodie, I noticed you stopped stuttering.
Bodie: I've been giving myself shock treatments.
Professor Hathaway: Up the voltage.

Ed Becerra

Posted by: Ed Becerra || 10/23/2003 16:43 Comments || Top||

#29  Junior, the ship was the USS Stark. Robert Crawford gets credit for naming it first.
Posted by: Yank || 10/23/2003 17:00 Comments || Top||

#30  are very good at 'spoofing', and could have been sending signals to Egypt, using Liberty call-signs and frequencies

I think you're on to something. How close do you suspect the Soviet trawler was to the Liberty?
Posted by: Shipman || 10/23/2003 20:55 Comments || Top||

#31  Funny how this type of issue comes up during a time when our support of Israel is critical. And on Monday the BBC is trying to jump start a war crimes tribunal on Vietnam.

Mysterious whackings are part and parcel of being in the Navy. Here are some example whackings:
USS Saratoga whacks the Turkish flagship with two Sea Sparrows, Iraqi jet pegs USS Stark with a double exocet lunch, USS Vincennes mistakes an Iranian airbus full of folks for a hostile and gives the entire planeload of innocents an express trip to see Allah.

None of these whackings made any real military/political sense. Each of these episodes really pissed some people off also and remain emotional national issues.

Summary - somebody is pushing our buttons.
Posted by: Super Hose || 10/23/2003 21:57 Comments || Top||

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